Gluten Free Beer Ingredient List

[EcuBrew]

In that table I read:
Temperature ranges for the gelatinization of various starches:
Sorghum: 69-75C. As far as I understand these are usually optimal temps. Thickness and pH of mash also play an important role. I think you simply mash within that range, I don't see why that's not possible.
Potato: 56-71C.
So there is an overlap there!!!

Further it says:

Green zone in the table= common saccharification test range, whatever that is. I suppose that's the standardized testing protocol range.


And:


Starches marked with (*) also benefit from boiling before being used in the mash.

It says "benefit", so that doesn't mean they have to be boiled.

In my bible the test temp for Dari (sorghum) was 30C !!!! That's very low.
Test temps for regular barley malts were 30-60C.

I have no numbers, but from my experience I would say that enzymatic activity probably starts from just above freezing (as in sprouting grains and seeds, that what the enzymes were meant for). The activity will be less and increase with temperature. There are of course optimal temps for the fastest conversion of starch into sugar.

As an example: watch what happens when you make like a pancake batter and leave it at room temp:
liquification > saccharification > alcoholic (yeasts) and bacterial fermentation (lactic acid bacteria etc.) You'll end up in the end with sour dough, but at some point you get a brown liquid on top that tastes very sweet: you've been brewing at a low temp.

I think you guys should just simply try and not be fooled to much by theory.
You'll find out with a simply iodine test if it works or not.

You may not be able to make clones of commercial beers,but who cares, become a beer inventor!!!

Do some very small sample tests...

 

[DKershner]

We are now getting over my head, and I should let some others who have malted GF grains do the answering from here. I have no experience with experimental GF malting and mashing. Plus, we are mostly off the topic of potatoes.

What does a potato leave in flavor in beer?

 

[EcuBrew]

Off topic: almost yes, but sometimes it difficult to keeps subjects separated.
We could start another thread or join a possibly existing other thread about the malting of GF grains elsewhere.
Potatoes add a distinct, but very mild flavour, difficult to describe. It's very pleasant, from what I remember, it's 16 years ago, it gives a kind of lightness to the beer and on the other hand a bit of a very thin syrupy feeling. I liked it a lot and it is a flavour that I'm sure almost anyone would appreciate. While writing this somehow barley wine comes to mind, but with less alcohol, although I imagine potato beer could be made very strong.

BTW, I am very sensitive to food and all kinds of other things. It's a mixed blessing, but it has forced me to pay a great deal of attention to what I eat and drink. I have been a vegetarian since the seventies and I recently switched to nearly 100% raw food, although I am including mainly barley (Belgian waffles, with sourdough) for the cold season again.
I remember my last 2 cups of coffee 30 years ago: for 2-3 days I thought I was going to die...
So I know very well how frustrating it can be when there a certain foods that we love(d) a lot that become taboo.
I hope everyone can see that I am trying to help you guys (girls?) find a way to be able to enjoy beer again. Having looked into it, I can now see that it must be possible.
You can ask me questions about malting and other subjects, I have been doing malting for many years, although I never tried corn or sorghum which look to be a viable option here.
On the other hand please don't expect a precise recipe (I never had, nor strictly followed anybody else's), we all need to develop our understanding and creativity.
This seemed like useful info:
http://www.nuworldfoods.com/cart/PDF/d_korn.pdf

I am wondering about the "maltability" of millet as well.

 

[Lcasanova]

No idea on the mashing either.

It was my understanding that potatoes lent some starches that would be converted in the mash and that nothing else was contributed. Consequently potatoes were a topic in one of the podcasts I was listening to (an OLD one). The Jamil Show- 10-23-06 Spice Beer Around the 44-45 minute mark.

They say adding potatoes to a mash is going to produce maltose and it wont really add anything else that is noticable. And it might add body based on the mash temp.

 

[Lcasanova]

Here is some info on malting gluten free grains while it isn't complete, it IS a start.

 

[BBBF]

I'm sure potatoes add some sort of flavor. Perhaps it just isn't as strong as corn, wheat, rye, etc.

 

[DKershner]

I hope everyone can see that I am trying to help you guys (girls?) find a way to be able to enjoy beer again. Having looked into it, I can now see that it must be possible.

I am not sure how we could misinterpret that, you are throwing out ideas and helping us to determine viability and difficulty.

Your ideas definitely aren't the easiest, but any idea is helpful, even if it is impossible. If I am coming across as unappreciative, apologies.

 

[celiacsurvivor]

I've just finished a brew I made from home malted buckwheat, I'll write up what I did and some other notes and add it to the Malting Gluten Free Grains Thread.

 

[EcuBrew]

Jamil et al:
I wonder if they ever tried it? It's all very well to predict the outcome of something, but the proof is in the pudding: I made 2 batches and the addition of potatoes does not at all go unnoticed!
Again: were they talking about adding potato starch? Or were they talking about using the real thing (potatoes)? And if they did, what variety? Some potatoes have no flavour indeed when you cook and eat them, so they wouldn't likely add flavour to anything, including beer.
I also can't see how the mash temperature would add body or not. Unless they are referring to unfermentable sugars produced in the higher mashing temp. range.

 

[Lcasanova]

Can we add something to the OP along the lines of:

"Light" molasses= 90% fermentable
Blackstrap molasses = 50% fermentable

I did a 5 gallon batch pretty similar to #2. It was all molasses, but used Cascade hops. I did not use any yeast nutrient.

It fermented quite vigorously. It finished at 6.5% abv. The taste was too sweet, and not what you are looking for in beer.
That said, I'm drinking it

From Experimental Batches

 

[DKershner]

Can we add something to the OP along the lines of:

"Light" molasses= 90% fermentable
Blackstrap molasses = 50% fermentable

Yup.

 

[Lcasanova]

Here's a thread with some information on another source of fermentables. I've never used it and I don't know where to get it but I sure want to try some.

Mesquite Molasses Beer

Any of you guys heard of/used this ever?

 

[DKershner]

Any of you guys heard of/used this ever?

Definitely not, and there are definitely no mesquite pods in this desert.

 

[KevinM]

Interesting concept. And it seems for us Northeasterners, there's a similar pod from a tree called a Honey locust that we might be able to use. Apparently most descriptions says it was originally used to create alcoholic beverages. Just have to make sure it's not the black locust tree though.

 

[fermentedhiker]

I've been mulling over using acorns as well. After leeching the tannins out the Native Americans roasted them and ground them into a flour. Which leads me to thinking they might have some home-brewing uses as well.

 

[EcuBrew]

Acorns:
I think I came across them somewhere along my searches. Could definitely be used for flour.
Roasted they could probably be used to flavour and colour beer.
Don't know if they would have any diastatic properties, but certainly not after roasting.
Acorns were often (maybe still in some places) used for pig feed.
I think they were sometimes used roasted as an addition to or on their own as a coffee substitute.

 

[Leeinwa]

"Malt" and Adjuncts:

• Sorghum, both in raw form, Syrup Extract, and Syrup itself. The syrup extract is the closest thing to barley in terms of FAN, enzymes, and sugar content, but imparts a tangy, bitter, or citrusy aftertaste. This is the most highly used ingredient in gluten free beer. The syrup itself has unknown properties at this time for brewing. Raw form is also fairly unknown. Note: The roots of raw sorghum can contain cyanide and must be removed.
• Brown Rice Syrup and Solids. Imparts a slight sweetness in taste to the brew, but ferments out similarly to sorghum or malt extract. Little FAN, may have problems converting on it's own.
• Buckwheat, raw. Imparts a slight wheat-like flavor that can change with how long it is roasted. Often used for color. No enzymes.
• Chestnut chips. Closest to barley flavor of the gluten free grains. No enzymes, so they must be added, typically amylase is used.
• Corn Sugar, table sugar, candi sugar, corn syrup, etc. All impart their own colors and flavors and can be used as in gluten beer.
• Maltodextrin. MOST of the time this ingredient is gluten free, especially in the US, check with your provider to be sure. Used for additional body in the beer.
• Rice. Minute Rice is suggested to be used due to its ability to convert itself.
• Oats. Make sure you get ones designated as 'gluten free' or else they could be crop rotated with wheat or packaged using equipment that also does wheat containing products. Used for mouthfeel, body, and head retention.
• "Light" molasses= 90% fermentable
• Blackstrap molasses = 50% fermentable

Approximate equivalent gluten free grain by common beer grain as matched by nutritional information*:
Wheat ~ Millet, Teff
Barley ~ Sorghum, Chestnuts
Rye ~ Buckwheat
Oats ~ GF Oats (duh), Quinoa, Amaranth

Hops:
All hops are gluten free.

Yeast:

Yeasts that are completely gluten free:

• All Fermentis Safale and Saflager Dry Yeasts - US05, S04, S33, T58, WB06, etc.
• All Danstar/Lallemand/DCL Labs Dry Yeast Products - Nottingham, Windsor, etc.
• Red Star Wine and Champagne Yeast - Montrachet, Pasteur, etc.

Yeasts that are almost gluten free:

• White Labs Yeast - All including Wine and Mead Yeast
  
  [*]This Yeast contains 12ppm in the slurry, a number slightly above the less than 10ppm requirement to be called gluten free. However, the final product (5gal of beer) only has 2ppm.​

Yeasts that are not gluten free:

• Any Wyeast Yeast, including Wine and Mead Yeast

For strategies on how to reduce or eliminate gluten from yeast, see this link.

Any additions or suggestions, let me know.

Links to other helpful stuff:

• A flowchart for making decisions on gluten-free beer
• A chart showing gelatination temperatures for various grains, including Gluten Free

* Source: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f164/gf-grain-equivalents-168609/

Thanks for honorable mention of chestnut chips.


leeinwa

 

[Quantum]

Curious, I think I missed something important here. The flowchart says roast grain -> wait 2 weeks. Why 2 weeks?

 

[fermentedhiker]

Curious, I think I missed something important here. The flowchart says roast grain -> wait 2 weeks. Why 2 weeks?

That's because immediately after roasting your grains will have some harsh flavors. Allowing them to "air" out in a paper bag for a couple of weeks lets those flavor components either break down or off gas.

 

[Alchemist42]

Yeasts that are not gluten free:

* Any Wyeast Yeast, including Wine and Mead Yeast

Not shooting for sarcastic here.

What about this:

Wyeast 1272 GF

Anyone know where to find it or have used it? I can only find it's non-GF version online.

 

[dorklord]

Not shooting for sarcastic here.

What about this:

Wyeast 1272 GF

Anyone know where to find it or have used it? I can only find it's non-GF version online.

Wow, never seen that before. Of course, somebody has to be supplying microbreweries with the yeast that they use in gluten-free beers. They probably aren't all using dry yeast.

If anyone finds a place that is actually selling this stuff, that would be great...

 

[BBBF]

I've only seen it for sale once and it was a year old. I don't think Wyeast makes this regularly.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

COOL!

Thanks for the sticky. My buddy has been asking me to brew a GF beer for a little bit and this will help immensely.

 

[Alchemist42]

Something else that may help. I was successfully able to wash a gluten based yeast, since I could not get a hold of the GF liquid yeasts.

Basically, it took 5 1:10 rinsings to get the resulting slurry down to less than 10 ppm gluten (i.e. ND on the test kits). Basically, I took the 25 ml of slurry, added 250 ml sterile water, shook well, and let the yeast settle. Putting it into the fridge helped flocculate the yeast. I then poured off the top liquid (and saved it for non-GF brewing) and added 250 ml more water. At that point it was rinse and repeat.

I currently have a GF Oatmeal cocoa porter in secondary. Oats from my local brew store, as well as Oat malt (Nakid oats) also tested GF. I roasted 12 oz of each to black and then added a 1:500 dilution of amylase (which is again where it tested GF). Conversion took about 3 hours and was a complete B!%(# to sparge but it worked.

Hope that helps even more.

 

[KevinM]

I'm surprised that the second test didn't read that it was under 10. (Probably would have been useful in the https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f164/how-make-any-yeast-gluten-free-170919/ thread too.) But the first serial dilution registered over 10ppm?

 

[Alchemist42]

Kevin,

I was rather surprised myself. I actually didn't test it at the 2nd dilution, but the third and it was a marginal detect, but a detect. And so I did two more 'to be sure'.

I'll hop over to that other thread and give it a read and contribute if I can.

edit: just read it

I can see why you would be surprised. I should note I use Wyeast, not White Lab, so I have no clue what the original level was. But also, keep in mind, I was doing 10x dilutions, so by the third, I was 'only' up to a 1000x equivalent dilution.

 

[KevinM]

Oh that makes sense. Wyeast has a higher concentration of 120ppm.

 

[oldbloke]

Re the "benefit from boiling" asterisks, the chart doesn't specify those grains were malted.
I've had promising results from a small feasibility study using malted millet. Using just that and some hop extract I got something like a bland European lager.

 

[corkybstewart]

I'm going to brew a GF beer for a friend and am looking for something I also might enjoy.
I'm thinking of a making dark beer, and I see dark candi sugar mentioned a lot. Is the Belgian dark syrup acceptable as well? It has a lot more color and flavor than the candi sugfar, and I have several bottles on hand.

 

[dorklord]

I'm going to brew a GF beer for a friend and am looking for something I also might enjoy.
I'm thinking of a making dark beer, and I see dark candi sugar mentioned a lot. Is the Belgian dark syrup acceptable as well? It has a lot more color and flavor than the candi sugfar, and I have several bottles on hand.

Sure. There's a pretty wide variety of 'belgian candi' out there, from hard rock sugar to soft granulated sugar to syrups, and they can all be used, of course with somewhat differing results and various personal preferences.