Getting the most from dry hops..NEIPA

[HopsAreGood]

I'm always looking for ways to get the biggest possible impact from dry hopping. I brew mostly neipas and have done all the typical things that are common to the style...dry hopping before even transferring the wort, dry hopping during active fermentation, dry hopping towards the tail end of fermentation, after, etc...

I've had a good results but I feel they aren't quite at the level I'd like them to be at. Recently I've seen some interviews and podcasts where some of the best commercial breweries putting out this style of beer, Aslin and Monkish, claim to not dry hop during active fermentation. I've seen others claim that treehouse and trillium do not do this either. It got me to thinking that some of the processes that become the norm in the homebrewing world aren't always the only way or best way to do things. (Obviously)

The gist of what was said is that dry hopping in the presence of yeast is a waste. Yes, bio transformation is a real thing, but I can't personally say that I've ever had my mind blown by it or the results it may or may not impart on the final beer. Any hop oils that bind to the yeast during active fermentation are likely to floc out with the yeast..it's pretty straight forward. The process that was mentioned being used is to complete your fermention, crash the beer to your preferred temperature and remove as much yeast as humanly possible. Transfer the beer and bring it up to your preferred dry hopping temp, add your dry hops, and let it do its thing for 2-3 days (or however long you like) Then cool the beer to serving temp, carb and serve as usual. Depending on your system you can either transfer the beer to a serving keg or just serve from the keg you dry hopped in.

The main point here is to ONLY dry hop when as much yeast as possible has been removed. The more I think about it the more it seems to just make sense. The less yeast you have involved, the more impact your hops can have. I've done about 20 NEIPA brews and while they've been good, they haven't quite been on the level of Aslin or Monkish. All of them involved dry hopping with lots of yeast "in the way"

So anyway, I guess what I'm looking for here is just any thoughts or experiences you all may have with this.

Thanks!

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

The most in-depth conversation regarding the things you are considering seems to be taking place here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/

Good luck on your dive down the NEEPA rabbit-hole.

 

[Upthewazzu]

I've found that the method laid out by @HopsAreGood is the best way to go about dry hopping. finish fermentation, crash to ~ 58° for 24-48 hours, raise back up to 65°+ then add dry hops. I also throw in a d-rest after a few days because of the diacytl produced by hop creep.

Having a FermWrap heater and a ferm chamber makes this so easy (but not cheap).

 

[HopsAreGood]

The most in-depth conversation regarding the things you are considering seems to be taking place here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/

Good luck on your dive down the NEEPA rabbit-hole.

Thanks! Funny thing is the majority of my knowledge regarding brewing neipas is from that thread..I'll have to go back and read through some more of it to see if anyone mentions the question at hand.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Thanks! Funny thing is the majority of my knowledge regarding brewing neipas is from that thread..I'll have to go back and read through some more of it to see if anyone mentions the question at hand.

If you have combed through that thread then you know that the dry hop timing and dry hop vs. whirlpool etc. all seem to be up in the air in the NEEPA-brewing community. I am not sure that any one of these variables have been set-in-stone as being completely agreed upon for the best beer/hop utilization. As always with homebrewing it seems ongoing experiments are constantly shaping opinions on how to approach these things.

 

[HopsAreGood]

If you have combed through that thread then you know that the dry hop timing and dry hop vs. whirlpool etc. all seem to be up in the air in the NEEPA-brewing community. I am not sure that any one of these variables have been set-in-stone as being completely agreed upon for the best beer/hop utilization. As always with homebrewing it seems ongoing experiments are constantly shaping opinions on how to approach these things.

I completely agree..and I doubt that a unanimous concensus will ever be reached. The ongoing experimentation is what keeps things interesting.. It's been a while since I've read through that thread, but I'll definitely be giving it some time tonight. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

I completely agree..and I doubt that a unanimous concensus will ever be reached. The ongoing experimentation is what keeps things interesting.. It's been a while since I've read through that thread, but I'll definitely be giving it some time tonight. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

No worries. There certainly are pockets of discussion on other threads around the site on various topics you mention, I just think that as far as activity and constant consistent updates on experiments users are trying and outcomes etc. that thread is really the one to use as an all-inclusive working knowledge-base. Juice Wolves unite and all that.

 

[isomerization]

Biotransformation is real and documented in the scientific literature.

“Work by Takoi et al showed that geraniol is transformed by yeast into β- citronellol rapidly during the initial 2-4 days of primary fermentation (17). This transformation did not accompany a 1:1 decrease in geraniol, and it is believed that the hydrolysis of geranyl glycoside is likely responsible for supplementing geraniol concentrations. Other work showed the transformation of geraniol to β-citronellol is also accompanied by the production of geranyl acetate and citronellyl acetate (51). King and Dickinson proposed a scheme which showed biotransformation of geraniol and nerol by S. cerevisiae with 4 possible outcomes: citronellol, linalool, α-terpineol, and terpin hydrate (52).”

Source:
https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/downloads/jq085p11m

What I don’t think is as clear is whether dry hopping is necessary for these enzymatic reactions. Plenty of hop-derived oils make it into the wort.

See Figure 2:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2010.tb00428.x

 

[Dgallo]

In my anecdotal experience, there is a lot that comes into play with aroma and it’s not just the dryhop time or length; I’ll go into that as well though.

1) yeast/fermentation - the proper yeast strain with a great ester profile and a healthy fermentation hitting targeted temps for ester development will really help bump up your aroma. Imperial Yeast - Dryhop A-24 is an amazing yeast. Huge ester profile. Really can aid in the overall aroma.

2) proper carb - the proper carb will just throw the scent out of the glass but also help hold on to it. I aim for about 2.3/2.4 vol.

3) I am typically between 0.8 - 1.5 oz per gallon in my dryhops. This seem to work great with the whirlpool which is just about 0.8 - 1oz per gallon. I’ve gon bigger in the dryhop amounts, like 2.5 oz/gallon and found that though I may get more “hop” presence, it’s muddled and does not as defined. Cutting it back really does help brighten the aroma up and will take on the specific characteristics of the hops used. I also throw them in 3-2 days before kegging. And as mentioned before, dropping the yeast before hand will add some to it.

4) lastly, the combo does matter to some extent. Some hops or combos just work better for dryhoping or your preferences. Like I love using Columbus and mosaic. I use one of them in almost every dryhop combo I do. Some people aren’t crazy about Columbus in a NEIPA and I love the added complexity of good Columbus. Gotta see what works best for you.

 

[HopsAreGood]

In my anecdotal experience, there is a lot that comes into play with aroma and it’s not just the dryhop time or length; I’ll go into that as well though.

1) yeast/fermentation - the proper yeast strain with a great ester profile and a healthy fermentation hitting targeted temps for ester development will really help bump up your aroma. Imperial Yeast - Dryhop A-24 is an amazing yeast. Huge ester profile. Really can aid in the overall aroma.

2) proper carb - the proper carb will just throw the scent out of the glass but also help hold on to it. I aim for about 2.3/2.4 vol.

3) I am typically between 0.8 - 1.5 oz per gallon in my dryhops. This seem to work great with the whirlpool which is just about 0.8 - 1oz per gallon. I’ve gon bigger in the dryhop amounts, like 2.5 oz/gallon and found that though I may get more “hop” presence, it’s muddled and does not as defined. Cutting it back really does help brighten the aroma up and will take on the specific characteristics of the hops used. I also throw them in 3-2 days before kegging. And as mentioned before, dropping the yeast before hand will add some to it.

4) lastly, the combo does matter to some extent. Some hops or combos just work better for dryhoping or your preferences. Like I love using Columbus and mosaic. I use one of them in almost every dryhop combo I do. Some people aren’t crazy about Columbus in a NEIPA and I love the added complexity of good Columbus. Gotta see what works best for you.

I agree with pretty much all of this. Especially with the more is not always better concept. I've done huge dryhops before and almost always get a very "muddy" hop profile. Sure, it's hoppy as hell, but it's very difficult to identify any specific hops or distinct characteristics. It's just like strait up muddy hop juice, which is not what I'm going for.