Getting that malty taste?

[bnscherm]

Hello All,

I'm new to the forum, but I've been lurking for long time. I've been brewing for about two years, and just recently made the move to all-grain.

I've got about 5 all-grain brews under my belt all of which turned out pretty good, but not great. My most recent beer was a pumpkin ale which I modified from one of the Northern Brewer Irish Red ale all-grain recipe kits. I've got the beer kegged, and have tried a couple of tastes, and have noticed that it tastes very dry and bitter for a red. I was hoping for a rich malty taste to help balance the bitterness and pumpkin flavor.

I'm mashing in a 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler and maintained the range of 154-152F for 60 minutes. If I'm looking for more malt flavor without using darker grains it sounds like maybe I should have been mashing at a higher temperature. Could someone recommend a temperature, or possibly some grain additions that could help give me that maltiness (think Sam Adam's Oktoberfest) that I want without getting into the darker heavy malts?

Also, my well water is very hard. Is there any chance that this is messing with the mash pH and causing some of these problems? Could this be part of the extra bitterness that I taste?

Thanks for the help!

 

[KingBrianI]

your first priority should be to fix the water. if it's very hard there are probably sufficient carbonates in it to make the pH too alkaline. Treat the mash with 5star 5.2 buffer. The high mash pH would lead to tannin extraction which would give a bitterness/astringent flavor to the beer.

mashing higher would create a less fermentable wort, meaning more sugar/maltiness in the final product. 154 is usually sufficient to produce a slightly malty beer but depending on other factors (like IBU and grains used) you may want to go up to 156 or even 158.

the addition of "malty" tasting grains will also help. munich malt is commonly used to add a malty flavor and would be almost required in an octoberfest. using maris otter as a base grain will also help add maltiness.

finally, the higher the IBUs of the final beer, the less malty it will taste. cut back on the bittering hops additions and the beer will taste maltier.

there are several suggestions that should point you in the right direction.

 

[ol' rummie]

Higher mash temps (up to 160F) will give you a fuller bodied beer.
How is your effeciency? Crush?
As for hard water, calcium and magnesium are basically the hardness in hard water, and too much magnesium can make the beer taste bitter or sour.

 

[menschmaschine]

Well, one thing to consider is that Sam Adams Oktoberfest is a German-style lager. Oktoberfest beers are known for their maltiness. Lager yeasts ferment cleaner than ale yeasts and many lagers have lower IBUs than most ales, which accentuates the maltiness. If you really want maltiness like an Oktoberfest, then you might want to consider getting lagering capability and brew a lager (try Helles or Oktoberfest for the maltiest). Here are a few factors that achieve the kind of maltiness you're talking about (in lagers):

-Pilsner malt
-Munich malt
-Melanoidin malt
-Decoction mashing

 

[bnscherm]

Thanks for the info. I haven't calculated my efficiency yet, and the crush that I get comes from the brew store. The recent malt looked like it had been cracked, compared to some of the more "crushed" malt that I've gotten before.

I've ordered another red ale kit to compare the effects of treating with 5.2 buffer and 158-156F mash.

I also ordered some munich malt to experiment with. I have a bunch of american 2-row pale, crystal 40, carapils/dextrine that I had planned to do an american pale ale with. Maybe someone could come up with a recipe recommendation for a malty pale ale recipe I could try with the munich?

Thanks again!