I have not brewed beer in a few years, but brewed about 15 batches with extracts, and want to get in to brewing again and am thinking about all grain. I will most likely be brewing mostly stouts, and am looking for a basic set up. I am thinking of buying a cooler mash tun, and a 15 gal brewing kettle and am wondering if there is anything else that is essential, or you would not brew without. I have a propane burner, fermentation buckets, carboys, and other basic brewing equipment. Also any suggestions on a kettle brand, I am looking to spend around $500 on everything I need if I can.
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Black Island Brewer
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If I were starting all over, I'd go with Brew in a Bag over the cooler mash tun. It's cheaper, easier, gives you the ability to direct heat your mash for step mashes, is no-sparge. Check our the BIAB sub-forum here under all grain brewing.
I do both 3 vessel and BIAB, and have medals on the wall for both methods.
I do both 3 vessel and BIAB, and have medals on the wall for both methods.
JustLooking
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He's looking to spend $500 and can put together a three vessel system for that. Can't argue with the easier part though.
With stirring or recirculation, you can direct heat with either method.
You have the option to no-sparge (or not) with either method.
Like you, I have used both methods and will continue to use both. They each have their merits, but I get more enjoyment from three vessel. It's a hobby. I'm not always looking to make it easier or faster.
If you have a three vessel system, it's easy to do an occasional BIAB, but not the other way around.
And you can try the BIAB method by just getting your 15 gal BK and a bag (Wilserbrewer makes nice ones), no need to make/buy a mash tun. If it turns out you don't like BIAB, you're not out anything other than the $ for the bag. You can switch to three vessel anytime you wish (you'll want an HLT in addition to the MLT.)
Brew on
oljimmy
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Here's a possible compromise: do what I did, get a nice big kettle (at least 7.5 gals) and a large wilser bag. Learn the ins and outs of all-grain by doing the Brew in a Bag method. Then, if you feel like getting a little more complex and nitty-gritty, you can buy a mash tun or a larger recirculating system. If you decide to just go with just a simple mash tun (the 10 gallon cooler-style ones on here) you'll already have a bag that fits the mash tun, since you'll have used it for Brew in a Bag earlier, and having a bag to hold the grain during the full-on all-grain mash is extremely useful.
You'll need some kind of wort chiller.
Beyond the basics (kettle, chiller, mash tun, fermenter, etc.) I think a paint stirrer is a must. Attach it to a cordless drill and it works wonders for doughing in, sparging, chilling with an immersion chiller,whirl pooling and aerating.
Black Island Brewer
An Ode to Beer
I did a 10 gallon, but would do a 15 if I didn't already have a 3-vessel. Once you get a pot and a chiller and a bag (I have a Wilserbrewer bag) you'll want to decide on how to handle the bag full of hot grain in need of draining. There are many opinions and options. And since you have the funds, if you don't already have one, I'd encourage you to look into a fridge or freezer and a temp controller for fermenting.
Have fun!
jekeane
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I believe a lot of 5g BIABers have had good success with the Bayou Classic 1044 its a 11g pot. It is only $78 shipped on Amazon if you have minimal diy skills you can get a step bit from amazon for $10 and add a weldless bulkhead & ball valve from Bargainfittings for about $30 shipped. You could also add a thermometer but you don't really need one as you can use a handheld and not snag your bag on the probe.
andy6026
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Hmmm, I've never tried using it for anything either than aeration. Perhaps I'll give that a shot.
Cjtabares
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Any suggestion on a kettle, should I get a ball valve, and a dial thermometer? Immersion chiller or plate chiller?
Thanks, I was thinking of getting one while I was brewing. Never ended up getting one but will definitely look into them again.
Thanks, I was thinking of getting one while I was brewing. Never ended up getting one but will definitely look into them again.
Black Island Brewer
An Ode to Beer
Definitely get a ball valve. I put a 90 degree elbow on the inside as a dip tube.
Some guys put in thermometer, but I hate hitting it while stirring, so I drilled a hole in my lid and stick a long stem thermometer through the hole while monitoring the mash and chilling, and clip it to the side of the pot while heating strike water or stepping the mash.
There are lots of 15 gal kettles that work. Biggest decision is Al vs. SS. People get good results with both. Just be aware that that with an Al pot you should passivate the surface by boiling water in it for a while (check in the forums for details). There are also some types of cleaners that should be avoided with Al (again check the forums.) Spike Brewing has a good pro vs. con for Al/SS. For SS pots, Concords and Bayou Classics are popular and fairly inexpensive.
Ball valves are handy, especially if you have more than about 6 gal post-boil. I don't have any problem lifting my pot to an elevated surface and using an autosiphon to fill the fermenter @ 6 gal. More than that, and I would have to have a valve. If you're handy with DIY, installing your own ball valve is a straight forward project, either weldless or soldered (use the special solder fitting from BobbyM if you want soldered.) If you want welded, Spike Brewing has reasonable prices on pots with standard or custom welded fittings.
Skip the built in dial thermometer, they can get in the way when doing BIAB, aren't the most accurate, and can't be moved around to check temp in different locations. They seem to be most useful on HLT's in 3 vessel systems.
Go with an immersion chiller. Plate chillers have a big cool factor, but they can clog easily and are difficult to clean (and impossible to inspect.) There are other styles of counter flow chillers that are less clog prone. You also really need a pump when using a plate chiller.
These are my opinions, others may disagree.
Brew on
Cjtabares
Well-Known Member
There are lots of 15 gal kettles that work. Biggest decision is Al vs. SS. People get good results with both. Just be aware that that with an Al pot you should passivate the surface by boiling water in it for a while (check in the forums for details). There are also some types of cleaners that should be avoided with Al (again check the forums.) Spike Brewing has a good pro vs. con for Al/SS. For SS pots, Concords and Bayou Classics are popular and fairly inexpensive.
Ball valves are handy, especially if you have more than about 6 gal post-boil. I don't have any problem lifting my pot to an elevated surface and using an autosiphon to fill the fermenter @ 6 gal. More than that, and I would have to have a valve. If you're handy with DIY, installing your own ball valve is a straight forward project, either weldless or soldered (use the special solder fitting from BobbyM if you want soldered.) If you want welded, Spike Brewing has reasonable prices on pots with standard or custom welded fittings.
Skip the built in dial thermometer, they can get in the way when doing BIAB, aren't the most accurate, and can't be moved around to check temp in different locations. They seem to be most useful on HLT's in 3 vessel systems.
Go with an immersion chiller. Plate chillers have a big cool factor, but they can clog easily and are difficult to clean (and impossible to inspect.) There are other styles of counter flow chillers that are less clog prone. You also really need a pump when using a plate chiller.
These are my opinions, others may disagree.
Brew on
Thanks for all the help
MadHomebrewer
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Also, don't overlook on how you plan to maintain your fermentation temperatures. Temperature plays a huge role in how your beer will turn out.
Black Island Brewer
An Ode to Beer
I know you've already looked into the BIAB forum, but I thought I should mention that once you have your pot with a valve, the next decisions will be how to get the bag out of the pot - I prefer Wilserbrewer's ratchet pulley suspended on a frame over the pot and left to hang while the wort drips out - and insulating the pot during the mash - I use a reflectix wrap with velcro to make it removable, but many just wrap it with a sleeping bag.
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This may sound stupid, but all these folks saying they wrap with old ski jacket, moving blankets or sleeping bags--are we talking about moving massive mounds of weight on & off burners, or do you wrap VERY carefully, otherwise, how do you avoid burning the snot out of sleeping bags?
You don't run the burner while the insulation is in place. Once you get your strike water temps down, there is seldom a need to heat the mash once it is underway.
Brew on
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I guess I'm on a flat top stove, partial boil, regular mash, and I can't get anything anywhere near the bottom of the pot or certainly not touching any of the stove top. I'll just keep using the oven. I was intrigued by the reflectrix wrap tho...
Quoted for truth. Figure out how much it will cost you to control your ferment temps (used fridge, A419 or STC-1000 controller, heat wrap), then buy a pot with what you have left. Frankly if you're not going to control your ferment temps well, it's not worth making the wort.
Ball valve is a must have. For me a sight glass is also a must have but I am a brew by the numbers guy and am not at all happy if my OG is off by much. I put both on my 15 gallon bayou classic boil kettle.
I tried a counterflow chiller but like IPAs and switched back to immersion for greater control over the temperature of the wort during whilrlpool/hopstand. Alternative was to try a hop rocket but looked fussy and was not really designed for 10 gallon batches.
If you do go immersion chiller you need to think about depth of the wort post boil in your typical batch so you buy one that has all the coils submerged.
Be warned...if you are gung ho on this hobby $500 is just a nice start...
A grain mill would be a really good early investment in my opinion.
Black Island Brewer
An Ode to Beer
So you can see that regardless of which route you go, most of us will also say "spend the money to control fermentation temps". I have two, and get to use one for fermenting and one for cold conditioning/lagering.
Puddlethumper
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As others have said, proper fermentation temperature control will have more impact on your finished beer than almost anything you do to it during the brewing process. Make this your highest priority. If you are a DIY type you can build an STC1000 setup for ~$50 and then have the ability to control a heating element and the freezer for year around control. Prebuilt units will control one or the other and will set you back a little more money. A 7 cu ft freezer can be had new for about $180. You can usually find an older used freezer on Craigslist for a lot less.
I've messed around with BIAB but still prefer 3 vessel for the same reason someone else said earlier -- its a hobby and I just enjoy the process, YMMV.
Don't bother with big dial thermometers. I have two and once I checked them against a really accurate probe thermometer ended up pretty much ignoring them. There are no processes in brewing where +/- 5.0F is accurate enough. You can get a very accurate (+/- 1.0F) instant read thermometer on Amazon for ~$30 and I highly recommend this to anyone who brews. You can spend more and get accuracy +/- 0.5F but that may not be necessary.
If you intend to stick with 5 gal batches an 8 - 10 gal boil kettle should be quite adequate. If you are using an immersion chiller and set your burner on a stand higher than your fermenter you can choose between a siphon and a ball valve for draining the wort. When I was using an immersion chiller I built a small wooden stand for my burner for about 10 bucks and it worked out great for draining the wort without needing to lift the kettle.
Our tap water is at about 75F in the summer time and it is in short supply right now. As a result I found that the immersion chiller was unsatisfactory for summertime brewing - far too slow and too much water use. I found a counter-flow chiller on ebay for about $100 new and it works very well. Much less water use, quicker chilling to about tap water temperature and it is easy to clean and sanitize using CIP procedures. I would suggest you save the money of an intermediate step and go straight to a counter-flow chiller. They work enough better to be well worth the difference in price.
Hope these comments are of some help! Have fun and cheers!
I've messed around with BIAB but still prefer 3 vessel for the same reason someone else said earlier -- its a hobby and I just enjoy the process, YMMV.
Don't bother with big dial thermometers. I have two and once I checked them against a really accurate probe thermometer ended up pretty much ignoring them. There are no processes in brewing where +/- 5.0F is accurate enough. You can get a very accurate (+/- 1.0F) instant read thermometer on Amazon for ~$30 and I highly recommend this to anyone who brews. You can spend more and get accuracy +/- 0.5F but that may not be necessary.
If you intend to stick with 5 gal batches an 8 - 10 gal boil kettle should be quite adequate. If you are using an immersion chiller and set your burner on a stand higher than your fermenter you can choose between a siphon and a ball valve for draining the wort. When I was using an immersion chiller I built a small wooden stand for my burner for about 10 bucks and it worked out great for draining the wort without needing to lift the kettle.
Our tap water is at about 75F in the summer time and it is in short supply right now. As a result I found that the immersion chiller was unsatisfactory for summertime brewing - far too slow and too much water use. I found a counter-flow chiller on ebay for about $100 new and it works very well. Much less water use, quicker chilling to about tap water temperature and it is easy to clean and sanitize using CIP procedures. I would suggest you save the money of an intermediate step and go straight to a counter-flow chiller. They work enough better to be well worth the difference in price.
Hope these comments are of some help! Have fun and cheers!
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