General Beginner Questions

[Rezer]

I'm on my second brew now and have a few questions regarding my 1st and 2nd brew. I decided to use the Cooper's Australian Lager extract kit again. I only wanted to change a few variables at a time as I flesh out my process.

My first brew turned out alright. It was very clean, clear, and carbonated fine. However, it was very sweet tasting. At first I thought that these were green flavors, but after letting it condition in the bottle for 2 months, it didn't go away. Consulting these forums, I have begun to believe that these were off flavors produced by too-high fermentation temperatures. Ignorantly following the Cooper's instructions, I left my brew to ferment at room temperature (76f), which appears to be far too high.

The other factor that I think contributed to this was that I racked off the primary after 1 week into a secondary, where I only left it for another 1 week. Many people recommend 3-4 weeks, and leaving it in the primary the whole time.

This time around, I've decided that I will leave the beer in the primary for the 3-4 weeks before bottling. I also cooled the wort to 64 f before pitching the yeast, and it now sits in a water bath, filled up to the same level as the beer, and it sits at a constant 63-64 f. One other change I tried was using simple table sugar instead of dextrose, and was careful to use exactly what the recipe called for (1kg).

So here are a few questions I have, both pertaining to my brews, and in general:

• Do you think these changes to fermentation temperature and time will help get rid of the sweet off flavors?
• The brew frothed as expected this time during fermentation, but last time there was zero froth. Why would this change?
• The froth is now gone after about 8 days fermenting, and there are clumps of what look like yeast (brownish) floating at the top. Does this mean fermentation is largely completed?
• I don't really use my glass carboy anymore, and in general, they just seem tedious. What's your opinion on glass carboys?

Thanks for your help. While the last batch was very sweet, after a few, you got used to it, and my family and friends had no problem helping drink them up. The consensus is that if we can bring the sweetness down to an ordinary/low level, it would be a great beer!

 

[rodwha]

Is the 63-64* temp the water or beer temp? I found with mine that my beer's temp was about 5* warmer than my water after I put fermometers on instead of the floating thermometers I used in the water bath.

Sweetness, from what I understand, is from under attenuation. I.e. the yeast didn't convert all of the sugars.

I don't use a secondary typically. I'd keep it around for the day you make something that needs aging or fruits or some such. But be very careful when handling and don't trust those little handles you can buy that go around the neck.

I generally ferment for 3-4 weeks and condition for the same. I also set them in the fridge for a full week before I crack one open. Time is usually your friend.

 

[unionrdr]

If this is the OS (Original Series) lager, it comes with an ale yeast packet. So technically, it's a light pale ale. The OS cans have bittering only & in my opinion, the lager one needs some flavor hops at 20 minutes or so left in the boil. Even when it finishes at FG 1.010-1.012, it does have a slight ale sweetness to it lacking flavor hops to balance it out more. Besides the Cooper's ale yeast giving some non-descript fruity esters. And at 64F, Cooper's ale yeast starts to get a bit sluggish. It seems to like 66F in my experiences with it. I also re-hydrate the 7g ale yeast packet they give with the cans. works way better that way.

 

[Rezer]

Is the 63-64* temp the water or beer temp? I found with mine that my beer's temp was about 5* warmer than my water after I put fermometers on instead of the floating thermometers I used in the water bath.

Sweetness, from what I understand, is from under attenuation. I.e. the yeast didn't convert all of the sugars.

I don't use a secondary typically. I'd keep it around for the day you make something that needs aging or fruits or some such. But be very careful when handling and don't trust those little handles you can buy that go around the neck.

I generally ferment for 3-4 weeks and condition for the same. I also set them in the fridge for a full week before I crack one open. Time is usually your friend.

Its the temperature of the water bath. From the reading I did, as long as the water was at the same level as the beer, they wouldn't differ more than 1 f.

My last batch had ~90% attenuation (1.043 OG to 1.004 FG), so I don't think it was this. It had a distinct fruity or wine flavor to it, which appears to be from esters.

I started leaving them in the fridge for a full week too before drinking. Definitely makes a huge difference!

 

[dkeller12]

I don't brew lagers, but I do know that lager yeast, if that is what you used, needs to be fermented at much lower temperatures than ale yeast. With you fermenting at such a high temperature the yeast most likely fell out before finishing the job. You will definitely taste off flavors at such a high temperature and lowered attenuation. I fermented an ale at room temp 76*F and the ale yeast finished long before my final gravity. I would not doubt this may be the issue.

 

[Rezer]

I don't brew lagers, but I do know that lager yeast, if that is what you used, needs to be fermented at much lower temperatures than ale yeast. With you fermenting at such a high temperature the yeast most likely fell out before finishing the job. You will definitely taste off flavors at such a high temperature and lowered attenuation. I fermented an ale at room temp 76*F and the ale yeast finished long before my final gravity. I would not doubt this may be the issue.

The yeast in the Australian Lager is actually an ale yeast despite the name.

 

[unionrdr]

I got this beer kit with my Cooper's micro brew fermenter kit. The fruity esters are inherent in the yeast they use. Other yeasts, like US-05 gave similar, but cleaner results flavor-wise. Using the 25.16oz (740mL or so) bottles they provided needed 4 weeks at room temp to carb & condition well, then a week fridge time for good results. But as I stated earlier, the lack of flavor hops in the OS Cooper's line leaves a bit of extract/ale sweetness. Not a bad beer when done well, but definitely needs some flavor hops, like Czech saaz or German hops to make it more lager-like. Some other yeast, like WL029 kolcsh yeast that likes 65-69F & 2 weeks fridge time would make it even more lager-like.

 

[Rezer]

I got this beer kit with my Cooper's micro brew fermenter kit. The fruity esters are inherent in the yeast they use. Other yeasts, like US-05 gave similar, but cleaner results flavor-wise. Using the 25.16oz (740mL or so) bottles they provided needed 4 weeks at room temp to carb & condition well, then a week fridge time for good results. But as I stated earlier, the lack of flavor hops in the OS Cooper's line leaves a bit of extract/ale sweetness. Not a bad beer when done well, but definitely needs some flavor hops, like Czech saaz or German hops to make it more lager-like. Some other yeast, like WL029 kolcsh yeast that likes 65-69F & 2 weeks fridge time would make it even more lager-like.

Having a bit of sweetness in the beer is fine and our expectations for this beer would be considered very low by people on this forum (like your standard bud/miller lager). But its quite obvious that this was far sweeter than intended. We think it would be a decent beer as long as we can get that sweetness a bit more under control.

 

[rodwha]

I noted the 5* temp difference despite being at a similar level as the wort. But I've also noticed that my temps were closer together when the weather was cooler (I'm in hot and humid TX).

 

[Rezer]

I noted the 5* temp difference despite being at a similar level as the wort. But I've also noticed that my temps were closer together when the weather was cooler (I'm in hot and humid TX).

Well I'm on the complete opposite end of spectrum, living in cold and dry mainland Canada. The basement room we are using is 62f on the floor, 64f ambient, and the water bath temp stays right at 63-64f without any additional work.

 

[rodwha]

Nice!

I ended up having to get a fermentation chamber going. Too much work to keep the bath cool enough, and too much freezer space with water bottles! Glad I did. Now I can enjoy myself again without needing to keep an eye on the time so as to rotate water bottles.

 

[rodwha]

As union mentioned you could try hopping it a bit more. The bitterness will certainly help reduce sweetness.

 

[unionrdr]

Having a bit of sweetness in the beer is fine and our expectations for this beer would be considered very low by people on this forum (like your standard bud/miller lager). But its quite obvious that this was far sweeter than intended. We think it would be a decent beer as long as we can get that sweetness a bit more under control.

Try re-hydrating the Cooper's 7g ale yeast packet first. I use 400mL of water in my flask ay 80-90F. Sprinkle the yeast in & let it sit on the surface, the top of the container covered with plastic or foil sanitized for 15 minutes. Then sanitize a skewer or other similar device to stir the yeast in with. Then let it sit another 15 minutes or so till it forms a krausen. then stir & pith within 10 degrees of current wort temp to prevent shocking the yeast. It'll start visibly fermenting faster & attenuate better. That should help a lot, besides keeping internal ferment temps to mid-60's. And an ounce of flavor hops like the ones I mentioned would also help this beer a lot in my opinion after experimenting with it early on.

 

[Rezer]

Nice!

I ended up having to get a fermentation chamber going. Too much work to keep the bath cool enough, and too much freezer space with water bottles! Glad I did. Now I can enjoy myself again without needing to keep an eye on the time so as to rotate water bottles.

Yeah I did a bunch of reading about how to cycle water bottles, but after a quick test I found that I don't even have to adjust the temperature. It just sits on its own at 63/64. Guess I'm lucky!

I'll definitely be giving hops a go in the future, but for now, I wanted to minimize the amount of changes so I can get an idea of how they change the flavors.

 

[Rezer]

Try re-hydrating the Cooper's 7g ale yeast packet first. I use 400mL of water in my flask ay 80-90F. Sprinkle the yeast in & let it sit on the surface, the top of the container covered with plastic or foil sanitized for 15 minutes. Then sanitize a skewer or other similar device to stir the yeast in with. Then let it sit another 15 minutes or so till it forms a krausen. then stir & pith within 10 degrees of current wort temp to prevent shocking the yeast. It'll start visibly fermenting faster & attenuate better. That should help a lot, besides keeping internal ferment temps to mid-60's. And an ounce of flavor hops like the ones I mentioned would also help this beer a lot in my opinion after experimenting with it early on.

Thanks!

 

[unionrdr]

I hoped the info here would help you out. I use a 1000mL (1L) Erlenmeyer flask for re-hydrating dry yeasts in.