Gas prices

[Evan!]

Let's not talk about MILK we go thru at least a gallon a day at my house... And gas is at 2.80 here.

Yeah, just me and the wife go through plenty of milk. Use it in cereal, smoothies, protein shakes, etc. Luckily Sam's Club has it for like $2.39/gallon, rather than the stupid $4 the grocery stores have been charging.

 

[Ize]

Criminals? How so? Charging what the market will pay for their product? Outside of socialist regimes, that's not criminal, that's...capitalism. I'm no fan of high gas prices, but I'm also no fan of high prices for, say, milk...but nobody's calling the milk syndicate "criminals". Reminds me of the old joke...

Three guys are sitting in a prison cell awaiting sentencing. They get to talking and find out that all three of them are gas station owners. They ask each other what they're in for. First guy says, "I sold my gas at lower prices than my competitors. I'm charged with anti-competitive pricing." The second guy says, "I sold my gas for more than my competitors. I'm in for price gouging." And the last guy says, "I sold my gas at the same price as my competitors. I'm in for collusion."

I don't mean to start a flame war, but it annoys the hell out of me when people start calling other people "criminals" for simply charging what the market will bear, rather than selling it for less out of the goodness of their heart. If you had a stock room full of BMW's, and people would pay $35,000 each for them, would you sell them for $20,000 just to be nice? Of course not. So why should oil companies sell gas for less than what we are willing to pay for it? It makes no sense. It's always the same...everyone's a fan of free market capitalism until it inconveniences them...then they become armchair socialists. And yes, calling someone a "criminal" for charging what the market is WILLING to pay for their product is indeed socialism.

Fine. I'm not going to be getting into it either. It was just a comment on how sick I am of seeing it go up and up every year now.

It was my opinion.

Now I'll take it and go on vacation.

Ize

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

My bitch on gas prices is just that they raise them when a whale farts in the Pacific and take forever to lower them when the price of crude gores down. I realize the market is what drives prices but when they use the price of a barrel of oil in the futures market as a reason to raise gas prices today it bugs me. Then when oil in the market drops they tell you that they have to pay for the gas that they bought at a higher price before they can lower it at the pump.

And don't let me get started on Insurance companys

 

[Evan!]

My bitch on gas prices is just that they raise them when a whale farts in the Pacific and take forever to lower them when the price of crude gores down. I realize the market is what drives prices but when they use the price of a barrel of oil in the futures market as a reason to raise gas prices today it bugs me. Then when oil in the market drops they tell you that they have to pay for the gas that they bought at a higher price before they can lower it at the pump.

And don't let me get started on Insurance companys

Yeah, because of all the stupid cartels and the massive government intervention, it takes a long time to see any relief, and when prices do drop, it seems like it's out of the blue with no reason. Crazy.

 

[Todd]

My bitch on gas prices is just that they raise them when a whale farts in the Pacific and take forever to lower them when the price of crude gores down. I realize the market is what drives prices but when they use the price of a barrel of oil in the futures market as a reason to raise gas prices today it bugs me. Then when oil in the market drops they tell you that they have to pay for the gas that they bought at a higher price before they can lower it at the pump.

And don't let me get started on Insurance companys

Do you guys honestly believe the market drives gas prices? I see so much demand in our area that every single station is constanly busy. They all charge basically the same price. Yet on the other end of town the prices are different, some times higher, some times lower. It also seemes like the ends of town rotate who is higher.

I can't help but there that there is price fixing going on. Or at the very least there is so much demand that the stations have no reason to be competetive with each other. Maybe the price fix is coming from higher up than the station owners, I really don't know. You can also see it in the price difference from one octane to the next, some times it is 20 cents, others it is 10.

Anyway wanted to throw my opinion out.

While I'm at it does anyone find it odd that in the late 80's our vehicles got similar or better gas mileage as today? I'm thinking honda civic - toyota yaris, and trucks. I was just reading in Motortrend the turbo v12 luxury barges make 600hp weigh as much as a truck and average 16mpg. How is it our trucks making half the power get the same or worse mileage.

 

[Evan!]

Fine. I'm not going to be getting into it either. It was just a comment on how sick I am of seeing it go up and up every year now.

It was my opinion.

Now I'll take it and go on vacation.

Ize

Dude, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I'm sick of seeing prices of everything going up every year. Problem is, oil is a commodity that our world is so dependent on, yet we're actually grossly undercharged for it. Alot of that has to do with government intervention, but, really, when you think about it, they could easily charge another dollar/gal and we'd still pay. Think about that for a second. If you had a product for which people would easily pay much more for, would you raise prices? I'm quite frankly surprised that it's not higher than it already is, given how overdependent our world is on petroleum. Remember after Katrina, when prices shot up? The market didn't bat an eye, because we could still afford the higher prices...regardless of whether we liked it or not, we could still afford it. It's all economics. We're so dependent on gasoline, it was still economical to pay 50% more for gas than to find alternatives.

I hate how it goes up every year too. But expressing your frustration is not the same as calling someone a criminal. That's all I was saying.

 

[Cheesefood]

Another week with $3.00+ gas, and another season where I regret having a Wrangler. I really should just sell it and get it over with. It's not practical for children and it's horrible for mileage. There's no where to offroad with it in Illinois.

 

[Richard]

Dude, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I'm sick of seeing prices of everything going up every year. Problem is, oil is a commodity that our world is so dependent on, yet we're actually grossly undercharged for it. Alot of that has to do with government intervention, but, really, when you think about it, they could easily charge another dollar/gal and we'd still pay. Think about that for a second. If you had a product for which people would easily pay much more for, would you raise prices? I'm quite frankly surprised that it's not higher than it already is, given how overdependent our world is on petroleum.

Perhaps if the price was too high it would reduce demand to such an extent that there would be less profit to be made than if prices were lower. In other words, it's better to sell 10,000,000 gallons at $3 a gallon than 6,000,000 gallons at $4 a gallon. Extremely high gas prices would also have a terrible impact on the economy, which would probably result in less driving (and less gas consumption) overall.

 

[UTDoug]

I guess now would be a bad time to suggest a gasoline tax increase...

 

[DeathBrewer]

not quite related, but we had an overpass collapse in oakland (sunday morning, i think) and it will cause great delays to traffic over the next few months at least. yesterday they had free public transit. there was nobody on the road. everyone took public transit. this is a road that takes 70,000 commuters per day, so it was nuts seeing it quiet like that.

Although I'm not sure I would support it, I wonder what it would be like if they raised taxes on gas? more people would support public transit, there would be less people on the road, less gas consumption AND there would possibly be about the same or more money made from the taxes. Could be great if it was done properly.

I ride my bike and drive about half the time, depending on what i'm doing and whether it's raining. sometimes i take public trans, too.

 

[RichBrewer]

All I know is that the stations are all at $2.99 9/10 for regular unleaded here. I'm breaking out the bike!
I don't care about who or what is causing the price to climb. I'm going to do my part to reduce America's dependence on oil.

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

The problem that I see with raising gas prices to curb consumption is that not everyone has the option to use other modes of transportation. I know I don't. No bus service in my area to speak of, too close to where I work for rail(not that Albany has any) and the people that are affected the most are those that can least afford it. Personally my fuel oil bill has more than doubled(almost tripled) in the last 3 to 4 years. Until you can get Big Oil out of thier dominate position you won't see any change. And I don't believe taxing them on thier profits will help, they'll just raise prices to cover the tax.

And for what it's worth, this is coming from a registered Republican.

 

[boo boo]

Gas is $1.19 a litre here. I do a lot of walking.

 

[JimC]

Most people who I hear crying about gas prices are those who decided to buy $300 000 homes out in the boondocks and commute in an F350 or Suburban. That was there choice, now they have to live with the consequences of deciding to live 50 miles from there place of employment. It was our choice as a society to drive farming to industrial feedlots and single crop mega farms requiring transporting most of our food thousands of miles.

There are lots of ways to "beat the system" so to speak and they all take some creativity and usually a bit of sacrifice. Work from home, car pool, public transit, vegetable garden, community and co-operative farms - even changing jobs or moving downtown. Plus all the usual stuff bleated out over and over like turning down the AC and turning off your electronics at the powerbar. The stuff does work and will save you money. More and more money as the cost of gas rises and continues to rise with no end in site, ever. I buy beef by the 1/2 cow at a fraction of supermarket prices direct from the farm, $2 / pound for some of the best steak that has ever graced my BBQ. Between gas, parking and millage taking the bus saves me over $15 a DAY. Working from home when I can saves me more than $20.

 

[Cheesefood]

Who was it that said "People bitch about $3.00 gas while sipping on $4.00 lattes."???

I'm hoping to get my fat ass into shape where I can start riding my bike for errands. I took a job 3.25 miles from home instead of my previous 24 mile commute. I've installed flourescent bulbs all over my house. We have a programmable thermostat and keep it adjusted to just the threshold where our dog can be comfortable.

 

[Richard]

The problem that I see with raising gas prices to curb consumption is that not everyone has the option to use other modes of transportation. I know I don't. No bus service in my area to speak of, too close to where I work for rail(not that Albany has any) and the people that are affected the most are those that can least afford it. Personally my fuel oil bill has more than doubled(almost tripled) in the last 3 to 4 years. Until you can get Big Oil out of thier dominate position you won't see any change. And I don't believe taxing them on thier profits will help, they'll just raise prices to cover the tax.

And for what it's worth, this is coming from a registered Republican.

Percentage-wise, oil companies don't make unreasonably large profits.

 

[Evan!]

The problem that I see with raising gas prices to curb consumption is that not everyone has the option to use other modes of transportation. I know I don't. No bus service in my area to speak of, too close to where I work for rail(not that Albany has any) and the people that are affected the most are those that can least afford it. Personally my fuel oil bill has more than doubled(almost tripled) in the last 3 to 4 years. Until you can get Big Oil out of thier dominate position you won't see any change. And I don't believe taxing them on thier profits will help, they'll just raise prices to cover the tax.

And for what it's worth, this is coming from a registered Republican.

Here's the thing: nobody said it was gonna be easy, and nobody said that our spread-out commuter culture was a good idea in the first place. As for "big oil", think about that for a minute. We're willing to pay $5.00 because it's still worth it for us. It hurts, but not enough to make us change our lives. So, given that, let's say that "big oil" got broken up and there were a bunch of little oil companies operating independently. Since you're willing to pay $5/gallon, do you really think they're going to start charging less? Of course not. I wouldn't if I owned an oil company. The problem is not "big oil" and their dominant position. The problem is that our culture and society is built largely on a foundation of petroleum.

Changing that fact is going to be painful, but there's no avoiding it. Gas won't just magically go down in price.

 

[DeathBrewer]

that is one nice thing about our area. the public transportation is pretty nice. i can travel around the entire bay area on bart, muni, ac transit, caltrain, the list goes on and on. the only thing i really need my truck for is picking up items i can't throw in my backpack. i wouldn't agree with a nationwide, statewide raising of prices to reduce consumption...i don't even necessarily agree with it in my area, but i think that it would possibly WORK in our area and could have a range of benefits to transportation systems, the community and the cities IN ADDITION to helping reduce our dependency on oil.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

right now, with the .90cnd to the us doolar.. gasing up on you side of teh border was $1.00 a liter. We're paying up to $1.27/L cnd here. But the fact that it's still that damn high on your side is freaking nuts.

 

[jezter6]

Percentage-wise, oil companies don't make unreasonably large profits.

Tell that to the execs at ExxonMobil who continue to report RECORD profits over the last year. Not hard to make record profits when you raise the price of your product 20-30% a year.

From Reuters news:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N: Quote, Profile , Research) said on Thursday rising profits from gasoline sales and its chemicals unit drove its first-quarter earnings up over 10 percent, offsetting lower oil and gas prices.

It was yet another massive profit for Exxon Mobil -- the world's largest publicly traded company -- which has seen its coffers swell due to soaring oil prices over the last few years.

The company earned $39.5 billion in 2006, the largest profit in U.S. history.

 

[Richard]

Tell that to the execs at ExxonMobil who continue to report RECORD profits over the last year. Not hard to make record profits when you raise the price of your product 20-30% a year.

From Reuters news:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N: Quote, Profile , Research) said on Thursday rising profits from gasoline sales and its chemicals unit drove its first-quarter earnings up over 10 percent, offsetting lower oil and gas prices.

It was yet another massive profit for Exxon Mobil -- the world's largest publicly traded company -- which has seen its coffers swell due to soaring oil prices over the last few years.

The company earned $39.5 billion in 2006, the largest profit in U.S. history.

10 percent is a normal profit for most companies. Why is it suddenly wrong when oil companies make profits? What do you propose be done about it?

 

[Evan!]

Not hard to make record profits when you raise the price of your product 20-30% a year.

Yeah, what Richard said. What's wrong with making profit? Without profit, they'd have no incentive to deliver a product.

It's not hard to make record profits when you provide a product that our entire society and economy is overly dependent upon. The fact that they can charge 20-30% more each year is a testament to one thing and one thing only: that we need gas and are willing to pay much more for it than we currently are. It's not a testament to greed or cold-hearted uncle-scrooge-ness.

The more I talk to people, the more I think that economics should be a required course for high school graduation.

As I said the other day, everybody loves the free market until it inconveniences them. Then they're "suddenly-socialists". Profits! How dare they!

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

Here's the thing: nobody said it was gonna be easy, and nobody said that our spread-out commuter culture was a good idea in the first place. As for "big oil", think about that for a minute. We're willing to pay $5.00 because it's still worth it for us. It hurts, but not enough to make us change our lives. So, given that, let's say that "big oil" got broken up and there were a bunch of little oil companies operating independently. Since you're willing to pay $5/gallon, do you really think they're going to start charging less? Of course not. I wouldn't if I owned an oil company. The problem is not "big oil" and their dominant position. The problem is that our culture and society is built largely on a foundation of petroleum.

Changing that fact is going to be painful, but there's no avoiding it. Gas won't just magically go down in price.

Evan,

I'm not disputing that things need to change. However you are saying that if I am "willing" to pay $5 a gal then nothing will change. Being willing to pay a price and being forced to pay that price because there are no reasonable alternatives available is another thing.
Let me use my parents for an example. They are retired and on a fixed income. When fuel oil prices almost triple in 2 years time how are people like that going to be affected. Please don't tell me that they can walk more or bike or replace their heating system with a more efficient one because these are not reasonable in thier case. That's what I meant when I said the people who can least afford these increases are the ones affected the most.
Myself, I'm not about to start biking to work at 50 yrs old

 

[Evan!]

I'm not disputing that things need to change. However you are saying that if I am "willing" to pay $5 a gal then nothing will change. Being willing to pay a price and being forced to pay that price because there are no reasonable alternatives available is another thing.

That you think that you are "forced" to do anything is a common misunderstanding of how the market works. You make the choice to continue living where you are and working where you are and getting from place to place conveniently in the same manner as you always have. To say that there are "no alternatives" is a misstatement. A more accurate statement would be, "there are no convenient alternatives that would not disrupt my current lifestyle and routine". The problem in this country is that, for some reason, we have grown into a culture that thinks that we are all deserving of a certain level of comfort and convenience. Of course, that's grown out of the fact that we usually do have a certain level of comfort and convenience. And so we define our limits by that which would be difficult and inconvenient. "I bought a house in the country and drive around in a Suburban. Now I'm 'forced' to pay $5/gallon for gas because there are no buses that run out to my house!"

In reality, your limits of possibility (and thus, the real definition of "force") are much broader than merely that which is convenient and non-lifestyle-disrupting. We live in a bubble and we think that we deserve low-priced gas, or, saving, that, a cheap bus at our doorstep. We don't deserve either. We're fortunate enough to live in a wealthy culture where we are afforded the choice to live out in the country and commute into work by ourselves in a large automobile. But to say that you're "forced" to buy gasoline is based on the false premise that you have no other options, period. You have no other convenient options, and that's not the same thing. And the latter certainly doesn't translate to anything resembling being "forced" to buy expensive gas.

 

[Evan!]

Let me use my parents for an example. They are retired and on a fixed income. When fuel oil prices almost triple in 2 years time how are people like that going to be affected. Please don't tell me that they can walk more or bike or replace their heating system with a more efficient one because these are not reasonable in thier case. That's what I meant when I said the people who can least afford these increases are the ones affected the most.

The infirm, those unable to take care of themselves, the "exceptions", are not a sound basis for a widespread economic study. Surely, price increases of basic goods usually affect the poorest and sickest first and worst. But this is most surely no reason to adopt some sort of socialist economic policy where companies are forced to give away their product at below-market prices just to make sure that all the sick old people are okay. Our country already subsidizes the sick, old and poor via welfare, medicare, medicaid and social security. Don't use old people as poster children for cheap gas too.

Myself, I'm not about to start biking to work at 50 yrs old

That's fine. Perhaps you could move closer to work? Or carpool? Or use less energy elsewhere in your life to offset the higher heating bills? All I'm saying is that there ARE alternatives---convenient or not.

 

[fifelee]

Amen Even Amen.
Plus what is the alternative. If we artificially lower price then demand will out strip supply and grandma will have stand in line for gas.

Anyone like beer?

 

[user 574]

Our biz; product offering is highly dependant on petroleum products. From the plastic containers to various chemicals we mfg to the delivery of the product (heavy) our pricing strategy is tied closely to the barrel price.

A guy I worked with attending a seminar by some industry analyst who discussed "the game". This is and isn't a "what the market will bear" situation since it's not just about pump price. Without getting winded on it most of the oil is foreign right? They can't just increase the price to what the market will bear as it could literally kill the global economy. Hence regulation. Why don't we invest deeper in alternative fuel research? Hasn't hit that price point where the research $'s required warrants it but the foreign oil companies know how to push the buttons. To keep it laymen like; increase the price just to the point of pissing the world off where the alarms for R&D for alternatives may be fiscally the right decision. then lower it back down to control the mob. expect to see this going on for years to come. Made sense to me.

 

[Richard]

The US is not as dependent on foreign oil as some of you might think. There are some fairly large untapped reserves within US borders, and if buying foreign oil gets too expensive America will drill - frozen tundra be damned!

 

[Richard]

The more I talk to people, the more I think that economics should be a required course for high school graduation.
[/I]

But then who will employ the poor, wretched politicians?!

 

[desiderata]

The problem in this country is that, for some reason, we have grown into a culture that thinks that we are all deserving of a certain level of comfort and convenience. Of course, that's grown out of the fact that we usually do have a certain level of comfort and convenience. And so we define our limits by that which would be difficult and inconvenient. "I bought a house in the country and drive around in a Suburban. Now I'm 'forced' to pay $5/gallon for gas because there are no buses that run out to my house!"

That reminds me of a New Rule by Bill Maher 4/27/07:
"Someone has to make a mustard container that doesn't squirt out yellow water before it gets to the actual mustard. Someone had to say it. I get all excited for lunch, and then Grey Poupon pees on my sandwich. I suppose I could shake the bottle first, but, f*ck you, I'm an American consumer! Not only should your mustard be pre-blended to my specifications, it should also whiten my teeth."

Well, the SWMBO and I sold one of our cars, so should be using less gasoline--Yay!