Gas leak is killing me..... final solution?

[SanPancho]

so i've checked and checked. spray star san. take apart and redo the teflon tape. tighten like crazy. etc etc.

cant seem to find the leak.

i've got two primary regulators attached to a 20lb tank. one of them feeds a secondary.

at this point im considering just taking the whole thing and drowning it in the tub. cant see any other way to find this slow leak. getting beer up into your regulators is bad, but i dont imagine water is a problem. but the part im a bit concerned about is the gauges. not sure how getting water is those is going to play out......

thoughts?

 

[treacheroustexan]

Did you check pressure relief on your kegs, and are you cranking it up to like 30psi and then spraying? My first keg I bought had a leaky PR valve so I lost a few tanks before I realized it.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I agree with drowning it to make it easy to leak detect. Just don't include the regs.

 

[SanPancho]

interesting. i hadnt thought to specifically look at the PRV. i've been focused on the actual delivery system- tank/regulators/hoses/etc.

good point.

if i do end up drowning it, its gonna have to be everything until i can find the leak. i could start with the kegs, not too much trouble there. but if its not the kegs, then i gotta to the regulators and all the fittings. otherwise, what's the point? i'll just keep leaking.

now that i think about it, i've never refilled this 20# tank. it might actually just be getting low.

anybody know the weight on 20# aluminum tank?

 

[Upthewazzu]

In troubleshooting my gas leaks, nearly 100% of them can be traced to the PRV. The only one I had that was found elsewhere, required me to disassemble my Taprite regulator and replace the innards.

 

[PADave]

anybody know the weight on 20# aluminum tank?

The empty weight of your tank is stamped in the neck. That weight + 20lbs is how they know when it's full.

 

[Enemygod]

I had a leak when I first installed my system. Eventually I had to dunk everything in order to find it. The first leak was actually coming from the ball lock quick connect, where the pin is that presses on the poppet. I replaced the ball lock quick connect and that fixed the first issue.

Unfortunately I still had a leak elsewhere. The only thing I did not dunk was the regulator. I ended up dunking that and found a leak behind the red knob on my taprite (basically where the pressure screw is on standard regulators). Because of the knob on taprite regulators it would have been almost impossible to find without dunking it.

In the end I wish I had just dunked everything from the start. I found 2 leaks that I struggled to find with spray in less than a few minutes.

 

[Master]

I had a really hard to find leak that was the bourdon tube inside one of the low pressure gauges.

Never sprayed it. Found it by turning EVERYTHING that made noise off and listening for the leak.

 

[Bobby_M]

Before you go too far, you need to start at the tank and work outwards by doing leak down testing. Turn the tank on, set both primary regs to 30psi. Shut off the valves leaving those regs. Turn off the tank. See if it holds 30psi for more than an hour. If not, the leak is between the tank and regs or in the regs somewhere. If not:

Open the tank again. Open one reg output valve and close the output on the secondary you have attached. Close the tank. Is it holding?

ETC....

If you get to the point where all the plumbing holds all the way to the QDs, then move on to one keg at a time.

 

[SanPancho]

So I shut off the lines out from regulators, set the regs to 30 and gassed up, then i closed tank. I got distracted and they sat for like 3 hours or more and then all the sudden they were at 15. So it seems there is in fact a leak somewhere in the primaries. But star san, dish soap bubbles, etc doesnt seem to show where its leaking.

Considering this must be a slow leak im wondering if i could even find it with bubbles/star san, etc. Should i just take all of it apart and re-seal with plumbers putty or teflon? Try and get it under water?

 

[ancientmariner52]

Do you have a manifold made of bar stock? I have seen them leak at the ends on account of porosities in the original bar. Also, gauge internals can leak. I have also had pipe plugs and caps leak through apparently solid metal.

 

[SanPancho]

No. Its two primaries connected by a left thread nipple.

 

[spittybug]

Going through the same exercise myself. It isn't my regulator, either the primary or the secondaries since I can hold pressure up to the outlet valves of the secondaries. It looks like it is the distribution bar. I don't trust those red handled S/O valves. Time for me to dunk it and find the leak.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]Time for me to dunk it and find the leak.

Highly recommended - during the build phase especially.

This assembly had four different types of leaks:
- manifold plug needed re-taping
- up-side-down nylon flare gasket at one of the valves
- missing skinny plastic O-ring under one of the QD screws
- loose hose clamp

Would have been a pita to debug all that if I had skipped the dunk testing...

Cheers!

 

[jalc6927]

If your kegs were bought used, it is great insurance and dirt cheap to replace all the o-rings and poppet Springs

 

[ccliles]

I submerged everything in the bath tub, and found it to be the valve on the co2 tank

 

[SanPancho]

And no ill effects on the gauges? Or those didn’t get dunked?

So heres what i noticed this morning. Right side primary is barely off 30. Left side is way under 30,closer to 20. As they are connected inline I cant even fathom how this could be possible......

 

[ancientmariner52]

If I understand your system, only the high pressure side is common, the low sides are on seperate regulators. If that is the case, you've narrowed it down to the left hand low side. If you've dunked everything but the regulators and gauges, it has to be the regulator or gauge on the left. I know you are getting tired of futzing with this, but try swapping the gauges. If the leak moves, it's the gauge. If it doesn't, it's the regulator. Does that make sense?

 

[SanPancho]

It makes sense as i figured the left reg is the issue, but i still dont understand how, exactly. As the high pressure is common to both im a bit confused on how one reg could show 20 while the other is at 30ish. If the supply of high pressure gas is the same i dont see how one can hold while the other drops- both being fed from the same supply line.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'm beginning to think you may just have a fouled/broken gauge.

 

[ancientmariner52]

I assumed you had backed off the regulators and were checking for leakdown. My fault for assuming. If you've set them for 30psig, and one side goes to 20psig, that's a bad regulator, leaking or not.

 

[SanPancho]

That reg is just gonna get returned. It didnt feel very solid, mechanical action isn’t smooth when adjusting psi, etc. Ill spend few bucks more on the Taprite unit and return this one which is from Fermentap, morebeer is cool about returns so never an issue.

 

[gnef]

If you get a taprite regulator, it has a built in gasket. Make sure not to crank down on the nut to the tank valve. Alternatively, just about every CO2 tank that I've had has internal threads on the tank valve. There are special threaded inserts with gaskets that you can buy that thread into the valve that does the same thing that the taprite regulators do. Don't do both though, as the double gasket will actually cause more problems.

If you are using a cardboard seal to the tank valve, treat it as once and done and don't reuse it - you typically have to fully crush these to seal well. If you have a plastic seal, tighten down only enough to seal.

If you don't have anything between the regulator stem nut and the tank valve, that is definitely going to be problematic. You need something to help you seal that up.

Also, my general recommendation, even after solving all your current leaks, is to never leave the CO2 tank valve on, and disconnect your kegs from the gas system. Even if you have a small leak, it won't be a problem if the tank is off. (I have so much equipment that I know I've got small leaks, but I don't leave anything connected so I don't actually worry about it much - I do always leave the regulators pressurized, so I can monitor how quickly they drop over time).

 

[SanPancho]

Nothing to do with tank valve or gaskets or washers.

Was the regulator. Swapped it for a taprite and now theyve held steady for 48hrs. Next is to test downstream lines and connectors before i put it all back together.

 

[spittybug]

SOLVED. That was a PITA and not what one would expect. See the pictures. The brass distribution body split. I don't know why spraying soapy water on it didn't find it, but submerging it sure did. I guess the moral of the story is don't rule anything out.

 

[SanPancho]

SOLVED. That was a PITA and not what one would expect. See the pictures. The brass distribution body split. I don't know why spraying soapy water on it didn't find it, but submerging it sure did. I guess the moral of the story is don't rule anything out.View attachment 552806 View attachment 552807

You submerge the regulator too? Or just the distribution parts?

 

[spittybug]

Not the regulator. Don't want water in the gauges.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Bad casting. That's what I tried to describe back in post #11. Sometimes solid metal ... isn't.

FWIW: there are ultrasonic leak detectors available that can find very tiny low pressure leaks like this. If I were to invest in kegging, I'd probably buy one of these as well.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Piggybacking...

I have a leak that I haven't done too much to track down yet. I tried some soapy water but didn't find anything bubbling.
It seems to be that the keg itself is holding pressure so it is somewhere between there and the tank.
I have a single regulator that came with my Danby kegerator, I don't know the brand offhand.

I suspect the shutoff valve on the line out from the regulator to the keg. It has a plastic knob and if you mess with it, you can hear it hissing. Seems like you need to get it into a specific spot for the hissing to stop, but I wouldn't bet that no gas could seep out there.
I don't really use this valve currently, has anyone just replaced it with a straight barb fitting instead?

As a follow up, I have threaded connections as each pin lock connector and use them fairly frequently to switch out between gas and liquid connectors when I pressurize a new keg (I like that first charge to bubble up through the beer and purge out the gas connect). Should these connections require teflon tape? Seems they wouldn't be so good as quick disconnects if I have to re-tape every time.

Thanks,

 

[spittybug]

Piggybacking...

I have a leak that I haven't done too much to track down yet. I tried some soapy water but didn't find anything bubbling.
It seems to be that the keg itself is holding pressure so it is somewhere between there and the tank.
I have a single regulator that came with my Danby kegerator, I don't know the brand offhand.

I suspect the shutoff valve on the line out from the regulator to the keg. It has a plastic knob and if you mess with it, you can hear it hissing. Seems like you need to get it into a specific spot for the hissing to stop, but I wouldn't bet that no gas could seep out there.
I don't really use this valve currently, has anyone just replaced it with a straight barb fitting instead?

As a follow up, I have threaded connections as each pin lock connector and use them fairly frequently to switch out between gas and liquid connectors when I pressurize a new keg (I like that first charge to bubble up through the beer and purge out the gas connect). Should these connections require teflon tape? Seems they wouldn't be so good as quick disconnects if I have to re-tape every time.

Thanks,

No tape required. There is a little ring of rubber or soft plastic on the conical male tip that makes a nice seal against the female connection on the gas line. I never even use a wrench; just hand torque it tight.