Fully Automated Brewery Senior Design

[SnowRaven]

I was thinking of using silicon, because I could reclaim some heat and then transfer that water to the HLT where I could use it to either clean the pipes, or use it for the next mash. This is what they do on the commercial scale, but I haven't looked at whether or not it makes financial sense for the homebrewer.

Anyone done the math on this yet?

use the hot water created from a chiller, and divert to the hot liquor tank for your next batch

 

[jgalati]

Someone tell me if I'm being paranoid, but filling the hlt with warm water from a cheap garden hose isn't sanitary?

 

[SnowRaven]

Someone tell me if I'm being paranoid, but filling the hlt with warm water from a cheap garden hose isn't sanitary?

They make NSF 3/4 hoses else a triclamp hose

 

[Snicklefritz]

You mean like this? http://picobrew.com/

Might be able to get some inspiration from that.

 

[mattd2]

i'll wade in with my opions too Firstly congratulations on getting to final year!
General I would say consider if there are any mechnical/process elements to the design that could be passed of to another department's students for their design project - that will take the hassle off of you. Also is their any workshops (that are experienced with SS and Food & beverage work) that have an association with the university and could "donate" some time for anything that needs to be fabricated, in exchange for getting to brew on the gear and their name in lights
Also really sit down and map out what you want from the end project, and by end I don't mean what you can get done in a semester/year... consider the project as something that will be passed off to next years students to implement something new. Some of my suggestions will probably fall into this catagory. Select what you want to (and can) do in the time you have but document the future ideas/concepts.

1) Given a BeerXML file, uploaded via dropbox, the mobile app will parse the XML file, transfer it to the beaglebone, and the user will only have to put grain into the mill hopper, add hop additions during the boil (which the app will remind you to do), and add yeast at the end.

Automatic hop additions would be cool... one step further automatic grain and hop weighing from hoppers, this would be a good future extension.

2) Given no BeerXML file, or if the user prefers doing the process them self, options will exist on both the mobile app and beaglebone HDMI interface to control each individual brewing process such as: heating strike water, mashing, recirculating, transfer to kettle, etc.

Could the main UI be the second part of your comment, with the ability to import the BeerXML into it to autopopulate the feilds?

3) All valves will be edit: electric ball valve controlled (either 120V AC or 12V DC) I haven't decided.

If you can I would go 12VDC just for safety's sake

4) Tubing will be 3/8" Silicon with 5/8" outside Diameter.

Consider hardpiping with SS tube - check out if you can get donated/subsidised fittings,etc. from a local supplier

5) Fittings will all be 1/2".

6) Pumps will be DC. Now, I know many like March and Chugger pumps, but hear me out. With DC pumps, I can achieve 3GPM max at 0' of Head. In reality, the most head your pumps should see is maybe 2' if you're accounting for resistance in the tubing. Given that I never mash out at 3GPM, and transfering from kettle to fermenter isn't time sensitive, I've selected the US Solar 12V 3GPM pump. ALSO, with a DC pump, and flow rate sensors, I can MATCH flow rates of the Lauter Tun and the Mash Out by varying the voltages to the pumps. This means: you don't have to operate ball valves to match flow rates. Not that this is a big deal, but I think it's really freakin cool! I've been using the US Solar pump in my homebrewery, which consists of 1 Keggle for a HLT and a Kettle, a 5 Gallon rubbermaid cooler to store hot water, and a 10 gallon home depot mash tun. Also, pumps cost $70. Cheap as hell.

From what I have read the 12VDC pumps do not reduce speed with reduced voltage and potentially running at lower voltages will burn out the motor, Just confirm that your control method will work. I have seen some info that Ac pumps can be "speed" controlled by PWM with no ill effect, but not 100% sure a PSC motor can be controlled long term for this (I have done it but my motor hasn't blown up yet so I don't know if it will keep going ). Someone at Uni should be able to advise more.
Future project could be to actually look at making a low cost modulated control valve based of the OSCSys style

7) I'm designing this system for 15.5 gallon keggles. Now, If I have time, I'll try and make it possible to make this system scalable to 1 bbl, but I can't guarantee it.

I don't think you should worry yourself too much on scaling up - since you will be dealing mostly with the control side of things for the project bigger batch means bigger gear but the control will stay pretty much the same.

8) Sensors I plan on using include: 5 digital thermometers for: 1 in HLT, 2 in Mash Tun (averaged out), 1 in Kettle, and 1 in output of wort chiller. Flow sensors throughout to measure speed of fluid transfer. Volume sensors in Kettle and HLT. (I may add a PH monitor to the kettle, but my water is so good in Oregon that it's just not worth it to me.)

Do research on the volume sensing methods and their lmitations... then tell us what you think is the best
How are you going to do flowrate sensing?
A detailed PFD/P&ID will help you visualise where your instrumentation is and if you have to much / to little.
As a "fun" exicise consider running a HAZOP to give you some experince in them - this project would be pretty well suited for one to be done. Contact a local Engineering consulatant and I bet you they'll have someone that can spare a few hours to come out and talk you guys through it. It will give you something extra for your report/presnetation at the end.

9) Wort Chiller will NOT be a plate chiller (trying to be economical so everyone can implement this project). I'll be using 25' copper tubing, and a silicon hose to cover the tubing creating a counterflow chiller. (This is also easier to clean than plate chillers).

Again don't try and design this to use specific equipment just so others can use it - a heat exchanger is a heat exchanger, if you cosider a tube-in-tube to be best for your porpose use it, but it will make no differnce if someone wants to use a plate chiller for theirs.

10) There will be a clean in place (CIP) function on the remote

As mentioned above the "solarpumps" will not run a sprayball effectively, even a standard 815 March/chugger will struggle. I would go with a SS chugger and consider something a bit stronger than PBW if you want a good clean. 2% caustic soda should be good, just make sure you take all the precaustions. Future project automatic CIP kitching for the brewery!

11) Full integration between Brewtroller (arduino based), Beaglebone (linux based), and a webapp (java/html based). Realtime feedback on all temperature sensors, etc.

What is the brewtroller doing in this? Look at the brewtroller source code for ideas but I don't see any benifit from being able to talk to one. Or are you using the brewtroller to control the brewery as per it's standard package and the Beaglebones to do the extras?

12) Ability to be mashing one beer while another beer is boiling in Kettle! I estimate this could save upwards of 2 hours per batch if timed correctly.

Instead of time savin, maybe look at energy savings with heat recover (Someone mentioned it, using the hot cooling water as strike water in the next back), markers will give you more bonus pioints for being energy efficient than saving time

13) Oxygen aeration: I'd appreciate any ideas on this. I'd prefer NOT using an O2 cylinder, mainly because it's expensive and I want to keep this cheap for everyone.

Again design for what you want to do and others can either use it or not. I would guess the uni has a supply of oxygen so use that.

14) Ability to use Natural Gas / Propane / Electric for heating. Ability to use a combination for heating. Pulse Width Modulation via SS Relays to maintain HLT temperature instead of valve control on a propane / natural gas burner. This means: Use gas to achieve desired temperature, then maintain temperature / boil via Electric. Another option is to have a regulator in front of the Kettle to maintain boil with gas, because it's definitely a cheaper heat source.

Are you sure propane is a cheaper heat source? I would not mix gas with permenatly mounted electrical due to the need to watch where you cables are located and sheiled. Go electrical - easy to implement control of the heat source

15) Control over mill by using a motor I stripped out of my old washing machine.

Maybe leave this one out of the project and others can develop a mill speed control in future. Just state the projects boundry is milled grain is feed to the system.

16) I will not be using a hard panel monitor to display the current status of the system. Instead, I will be displaying the current status on a custom GUI outputted onto a crappy old computer monitor via beaglebone.

17) Easy Easy Easy network connection between mobile app, beaglebone, and router.

18) Most importantly, please list any features I've forgotten to add, or features you'd like to see. I'm not offended if you don't like my ideas, because we can only improve through discussion. I'll post new features below here from now on.

Again really sit down and detail what the limits of the project are and make sure you can do everything you set out to do in the time you have... if not take something out. Keep in mind to try and hand this project to the next year, you may find that you started the Purdue University Microbrewy

Have fun
(and sorry if I sound like a dick in any of that!)

Edit: After reading some of you other replies - is this going to be located at the uni or in you house? I would suggest pushing for it to be the university's property as you will get more support if it is tied specifically to the univesity and potentially has multiple years of input into it.

 

[mattd2]

Someone tell me if I'm being paranoid, but filling the hlt with warm water from a cheap garden hose isn't sanitary?

It's sanitary as in you can drink it and not get sick. The probelm is the water gets tainted with a rubber taste. Go outside and drink some and you'll not want to use that to brew with

 

[ebstauffer]

The OP is being very, very self deferential. Purdue University is one of the countries top tier engineering schools. There will be no shortage of expertise there. Not to mention Blichmann Engineering is a ten minutes away across the Wabash River (maybe they could help out with some bling!)

A thought regarding pump speed -- why couldn't you just put an electric ball valve on the output side of a chugger/march to control flow rate? It's how we do it now albeit with a manual 1/4 turn valve.

Have you been given a budget for this project?

For the software part -- I would look to roll your own. Host the entire control system on an el-cheapo microATX box running linux. Tiny and fast.

 

[PDX_T]

Just another thread that makes me wish I'd gone to engineering instead of biochemistry. One can learn to brew great beer without a biochem degree, but brewing is very much an engineering task.

 

[jpalarchio]

The one place a solenoid valve might make sense over a ball valve is if you're going to have one for water fill.

The solenoid valve shuts off immediately versus the 10-15 seconds a ball valve takes to close.

 

[mattd2]

The OP is being very, very self deferential. Purdue University is one of the countries top tier engineering schools. There will be no shortage of expertise there. Not to mention Blichmann Engineering is a ten minutes away across the Wabash River (maybe they could help out with some bling!)

A thought regarding pump speed -- why couldn't you just put an electric ball valve on the output side of a chugger/march to control flow rate? It's how we do it now albeit with a manual 1/4 turn valve.

Have you been given a budget for this project?

For the software part -- I would look to roll your own. Host the entire control system on an el-cheapo microATX box running linux. Tiny and fast.

I would say for the control hardware since he say TI has sponsered the project that they are supplying a Beagleboard / BeagleBones Black.
I would also bet that Blichmann would be all over this! Good suggestion.

i just had a quick look to see if PWM is doable on a PSC motor and it seems like it is, using a SSR would help with the inductaive load as it will only switch off when the current is at (or close) to 0A... but someone who knows more about electrical/electronics stuff would be better to advise, someone like a final year electrical engineering student

 

[mattd2]

The one place a solenoid valve might make sense over a ball valve is if you're going to have one for water fill.

The solenoid valve shuts off immediately versus the 10-15 seconds a ball valve takes to close.

That is somehting I have though about in the past... my thoughts was to close the valve as you approach the set point - if you close it half way you should be able to slow fill the last bit and not overshoot much when you finally shut the valve off. Kind of like a petrol bowser.

 

[jpalarchio]

That is somehting I have though about in the past... my thoughts was to close the valve as you approach the set point - if you close it half way you should be able to slow fill the last bit and not overshoot much when you finally shut the valve off. Kind of like a petrol bowser.

The ball valves I've seen and used were not proportional, at least not anything I've seen that's in my budget. I think a few people have tried to modify various valves but they're basically open or closed. Usually this comes up when people are trying to control sparge rates with an automated ball valve.

 

[mattd2]

The ball valves I've seen and used were not proportional, at least not anything I've seen that's in my budget. I think a few people have tried to modify various valves but they're basically open or closed. Usually this comes up when people are trying to control sparge rates with an automated ball valve.

Sorry, yes the typical ones sold by OSCsys are fail open (or close????) and typically wired with a constant supply and a control input for close (or open????). What I was suggesting is to also control the constant supply. If they are actually sprung closed or ahve a capacitor in them to provide power in case of failure then there would be more to it. For what it is worth you can purchase from Asia with more control options - one being controlled open/close with fully open/closed limit siwthces!
http://www.tf-valvefittings.com/goods-13.html - wiring diagram CR05
When I said close 50% I mean roughly close it for 5 seconds.

 

[jgalati]

I've solved the valve PID workaround by using 2 things:
1) the motors will be controlled with either PWM or increasing/ decreasing DC voltage depending on the motor.
2) flow rate can be calculated two ways that I've thought of so far
2a) Integration of an analog flow sensor
2b) knowing the total volume of both the hlt and kettle, you can "differentiate" two points in time to find the slope of the volume fill thus giving you flow rate.

 

[jgalati]

Having played with various motors for a year in the lab, its very very difficult to integrate or differentiate [bold]position[/bold] of the rotor without a tachometer. Thus, i believe its much easier and fool proof to buy cheaper electric ball valves (a mechanical device prone to failure) and control flow with motor/pump speed than to rely on a ball valve motor control. Does that make sense?

 

[mattd2]

Having played with various motors for a year in the lab, its very very difficult to integrate or differentiate [bold]position[/bold] of the rotor without a tachometer. Thus, i believe its much easier and fool proof to buy cheaper electric ball valves (a mechanical device prone to failure) and control flow with motor/pump speed than to rely on a ball valve motor control. Does that make sense?

I think I am confusing myself by reading both you posts at once and forgetting to differenetiate bewteen the motor(pump) and the motor(valve)

So is my understanding of what you proposed to do correct:
Valves will be on/off only - no flow control
Pump will be flow controlled (in some way yet to be determined depending on the type of pump selected)

From my confusion an idea was born though - if you want to control the flow via a electronic ball valve could you: Select a "sprung closed" type valve and PWM the control signal. Thinking about it PWM at 50% will keep the valve in position, 0%/100% will be "quick" close/open and values between them will slow the opening/closing. Would this not suit a PID control loop well.

 

[jgalati]

It would yes, but controlling a motor is much easier than a ball valve because I'm controlling a constant voltage or PWM rather than polarizing/depolarizing the motor on the ball valve. Also, valves are more prone to failure than motors, and every time a valve is opened and closed it's life shortens. It's also a mechanical device with more moving parts and seals than a pump, which really has 2 moving parts.

 

[mattd2]

It would yes, but controlling a motor is much easier than a ball valve because I'm controlling a constant voltage or PWM rather than polarizing/depolarizing the motor on the ball valve. Also, valves are more prone to failure than motors, and every time a valve is opened and closed it's life shortens. It's also a mechanical device with more moving parts and seals than a pump, which really has 2 moving parts.

Man you are really making me want to ditch work and go home and pull out my Arduino, pulse output turbine flow meter, rip my control panel apart to grab the SSR and get a PWM flow control pump with feedback working!

By the way keep focused on then end goal of the project - much easier to write a report on it when you start with a goal and end up at it, rather than start with a goal, end up somehwere else and have to try and come up with a goal that fits within the assignments scope and has the outcomes you ended up with
Keep us updated and this is a great place to bounce ideas around.

 

[jgalati]

Having never brewed on a Herms system, can someone shed insight into the problems they face cleaning their brewery at the end of the day. Also, what's easy to do?

 

[jgalati]

Another question:
Assume whole leaf hops:

How do you guys sanitize your pump and hose before draining kettle to fermenter in herms? Assuming one is using a whirlpool, how do you prevent your mesh screen from becoming clogged before the whirlpool is set? Also, I'd like this project to not use a hop spider. Replacing the paint bag is an unnecessary cost, and from experience, cleaning the bag for reuse is a PITA. A stainless mesh screen would be cool but, again, expensive. Thoughts, opinions, ideas, empirical testing anyone's done? Ideally, one could just throw hops into the kettle.

 

[jgalati]

Update:

I'm working on a simpler design with these assumptions:

1) We'll get CIP working
2) There is already a tap-water solenoid valve for both the boil kettle and HLT (they're only $15)
3) Whirlpool is feasible
4) A stainless steel colander will be in the kettle to block the big hops from getting into the kettle.

Given these, I plan on installing an immersion chiller directly into the boil kettle, and whirl-pooling while cooling. The chiller will be close to the edge of the boil kettle where the velocity of the unfermented beer is greatest, thus increasing the rate of heat transfer.

Here's my rationale:
1) It's cheaper to buy 50' of copper tubing and punch holes in the kettle + connections than it is to build or buy a counterflow chiller, plate chiller, etc.
2) I don't have to worry about sanitizing or cleaning these devices.
3) I'm eliminating more plumbing
4) I'm reducing risk of infection by not having a chiller (terrible reason but I've seen a couple stories).
5) Plumbing is simplified

Anyone ever had a bad experience with an immersion chiller?

At the present, to cool my beer, I use a 25' 3/8" copper chiller with a hose connection outside. I then take a drill with a sanitized paint stirrer, and let that puppy go full blast while water is running. This cools 6.5 gallons of beer in 8' and also aerates it. While I won't get that type of velocity with a whirlpool, I can leave my kettle covered while this process is occurring, giving that most of the DMS have evaporated, and really don't have too much risk of infection.

Thoughts? Thanks.

 

[jCOSbrew]

There are several types of hop blockers/filters that can be used in the kettle. You could simplify the problem by only using leaf hops in the boil and/or using the hop bag for pellet hops. The whirlpool and a course filter should be very effective on the leaf hops.

 

[Spintab]

Having played with various motors for a year in the lab, its very very difficult to integrate or differentiate [bold]position[/bold] of the rotor without a tachometer. Thus, i believe its much easier and fool proof to buy cheaper electric ball valves (a mechanical device prone to failure) and control flow with motor/pump speed than to rely on a ball valve motor control. Does that make sense?

Couldn't you turn a ball valve into a servo pretty easily? Even use some of the electronics from a small plastic model servo but replace the motor with a gear motor with a lot of torque. All you need to do is attach a pot to the shaft of the valve.

 

[jgalati]

Couldn't you turn a ball valve into a servo pretty easily? Even use some of the electronics from a small plastic model servo but replace the motor with a gear motor with a lot of torque. All you need to do is attach a pot to the shaft of the valve.

I could..... but controlling flow from the pump is easier from a electrical standpoint and is less prone to failure

 

[hepkat701]

Subscribed! Awesome and congratulations! Only thing I would add that hasn't been mentioned is touchscreen interface, I know you are trying to keep it on the cheap, but these things have really dropped in price. I think it would be money well spent on the system. Maybe a SQL database to store recipes .. Good luck!

 

[jgalati]

Subscribed! Awesome and congratulations! Only thing I would add that hasn't been mentioned is touchscreen interface, I know you are trying to keep it on the cheap, but these things have really dropped in price. I think it would be money well spent on the system. Maybe a SQL database to store recipes .. Good luck!

Hey bud. Thanks for subscribing. The interface is going to be on a webappp so all platforms can use the system. The SQL database is actually going to be a drop box folder on your local PC, which has to be connected to the same router as your phone and brewery. The beer XML files will then be grabbed off that folder and displayed on a menu to brew.

If a beer XML doesn't exist for a recipe, the traditional herms methods will be available, I.e. heat strike water, recirculate, boil wort, chill, etc.

 

[hepkat701]

Well I can't wait to see this unfold!

 

[jmitchell3]

hey jgalati,

great idea for a project! wish I would have thought of it when I was in school.

Have you had a look at the Braumeister? Its one of the most ingenuitive devices I've seen so far...very elegant. I could see it being improved with your beerxml idea, along with smartphone app to control it and or load beerxml files for brewing, along with system status updates to the brewer. also, it could easily be fitted with an additional port for a chiller, although that's really not necessary as an immersion chiller is not generally a problem to use. Assuming a fixed install, ports for water lines could be used, and once water lines are installed, a fixed immersion chiller could work (maybe a larger external tank diameter?). The drawbacks of the system is that one needs a second container to heat sparge water, and the sparging is manual (as opposed to an automated fly sparging set up).

I look forward to your progress and success! Good luck!

j

 

[mattd2]

Could you also consider looking into utilising the "in-built" microcontrollers on the Beagle Bones Black for the process control with the main microprocessor handling the UI and communcation tasks.

 

[jgalati]

Could you also consider looking into utilising the "in-built" microcontrollers on the Beagle Bones Black for the process control with the main microprocessor handling the UI and communcation tasks.

I'm currently looking into doing just that. Are you referring to the pin headers?

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