Full Mash Decoction

[TastyAdventure]

Anyone ever done it??

 

[sudbuddy]

what would be the point? you would denature all your enzymes before they have a chance to convert

 

[TastyAdventure]

After your initial mash

 

[Qhrumphf]

You're talking about heating the entire mash to a boil after the conversion rest?

I'd be worried about tannins. I'm not sure why it works in a regular decoction, but from what I understand (and there seems to be doubt/debate even amongst places like BYO on this) that boiling a decoction does increase tannins, although not significantly, because the whole thing isn't boiled plus low pH plus high gravity plus either high or low concentration of grains (my guess being that a thick decoction would have lower pH and the thin decoction less grain to pull tannin from). And then that extra tannin is oft attributed to part of the "decocted" character that can't be emulated by specialty grains.

I'd think that boiling the ENTIRE mash could throw that into "too much" tannin range. But I'm not sure, it sounds like it may work. So I say try it and let us know how it turns out. Brew for science!

 

[Rcbandl]

Anyone ever done it??

It wouldn't be a decoction if you did it to the whole mash, it would just be boiling your mash.

I see no possible benifit of doing this.

 

[BigEd]

Anyone ever done it??

If they have it was probably only once. That's not what a decoction is. What is the point or reasoning behind doing that?

 

[Qhrumphf]

If they have it was probably only once. That's not what a decoction is. What is the point or reasoning behind doing that?

I would assume it's to get the flavor that comes from boiling the grains, without having to spend the time or effort on doing a step mash.

 

[didinho]

Anyone ever done it??

full decoction is 3 steps decoction.
I just did a few times a double decoction: more than 2 hours mash, 85% efficiency or higher, full malt and caramel taste, total full body.
it's not worth anyway.

 

[IslandLizard]

Why don't you find out and brew a small batch, 1-2 gallons and boil the mash? Or even split it up, boil one half for 15 minutes and the rest for 30. See what comes out.

With decoctions only a third of the thick part of the mash is heated and rested at various temperatures before it's being boiled for 10-20 minutes, or longer for the Maillard reactions to take place, which is crucial to the sought after flavor development. The decoction is then returned to the main mash where the enzymes are still active and do more converting. This process can be repeated once or twice to achieve double or triple decoctions.

Keep in mind, the liquid portion of the mash contains most of the enzymes, so you may want to add your decoction back for another conversion round after cooling it down enough to reach your saccharification rest.

 

[TastyAdventure]

You're talking about heating the entire mash to a boil after the conversion rest?

I'd be worried about tannins. I'm not sure why it works in a regular decoction, but from what I understand (and there seems to be doubt/debate even amongst places like BYO on this) that boiling a decoction does increase tannins, although not significantly, because the whole thing isn't boiled plus low pH plus high gravity plus either high or low concentration of grains (my guess being that a thick decoction would have lower pH and the thin decoction less grain to pull tannin from). And then that extra tannin is oft attributed to part of the "decocted" character that can't be emulated by specialty grains.

I'd think that boiling the ENTIRE mash could throw that into "too much" tannin range. But I'm not sure, it sounds like it may work. So I say try it and let us know how it turns out. Brew for science!

I'm aware that this wouldn't technically be a decoction, but I think everyone got what I meant.
The goal would be to achieve the maximum malty flavor.
I was unaware that Decoctions were supposed to be so thick to prevent excess tannins via a lower pH.
I did a decoction recently (still in fermenter) that was a little thinner just so it would be easier to stir and less likely to scorch. I hope it turns out alright, the gravity sample tasted great though.

I guess I should try a triple decoction before giving this idea a try, but I'm all for brewing for science!

 

[TastyAdventure]

Is there a good primer or other resource on decoction mashing? I don't think I fully understand it all

 

[Qhrumphf]

.
I was unaware that Decoctions were supposed to be so thick to prevent excess tannins via a lower pH.

I don't know if that's actually the case, not a scientist just my theory which could be wrong. Doesn't seem to be much agreement even among experts though. There's other reasons for thick/thin pulls too though (dealing with where enzymes are more concentrated at any given point).

 

[wobdee]

Look up Schmitz Decoction, it is a single decoction method that boils all the grains. Its easy and a lot less time consuming than a double or triple decoction.

I've been going back and forth between this decoction and step mashing to see if there's any difference in my lagers and have to say I really can't tell a difference except a slight darkening of color.