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Full-boil benefits with BIAB?

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Anyone mention fermcap?
I started BIAB with a 8 gallon kettle. (using fermcap) The kettle was closer to 9 tho. I had to sparge to reach volume and stood over boil to make sure but fermcap worked very well.
BIAB is almost too easy. I keep thinking about moving to a 3 tier system, but I cant figure out why? I now have a 16 gallon kettle and love it, well the volume.
 
dont mess around with 8 gallon pot. 10 will allow full volume mash. With 15 you will have no worries of boil over. That said my 20$ 8 gallon tamale pot did fit nicely on stove, but new stove pushed me outside. With 8 gallon pot you will be using a 2nd vessel in one way or another probably that 5 g pot. If you have gas like gavin showed you are money, and 11 will fit most your needs big beers will require 2nd vessel my stove was electric, it will scar electric in my experience
 
I started with BIAB and after some research decided to go with a 20 gallon SS pot, figuring I would eventually do 10 gallon batches. Glad I did, but got real tired of lifting the grain in those big batches so I moved to a two vessel system where I BIAB in one and then pump the wort into another (you could also just gravity feed). It was a progression over time but I can easily do 1.10+ beers by simply adjusting my efficiency (increasing my grain bill) without too much extra work on my part. BIAB is a great and inexpensive way to get into all grain brewing ... And I still deploy that method even though I've moved to a two vessel system. I had to dial down the efficiency a bit going to a two vessel system, but it made my brew process easier.
 
It's hard to clean aluminum?
Aluminum is soft, scratches easily and the protective oxide layer can be removed by common cleansers.

Five minutes with PBW and a Scotch brite sponge and my SS pot looks like new.

I should have said aluminum is difficult to clean without damaging.
 
Why? Why does it take 14 pounds of grain and 10 gallons of water? How big is your batch, what is the OG of the wort, how much do you boil off or lose to the grain?

Why does he need to go to stainless steel? Many of us do just fine with aluminum at a much lower cost.

Why does he need a cake rack to avoid scorching? I bring the water to strike temp before I put the bag in and never add any heat until the bag is out again. No possibility of scorching that way.

For a small additional investment, SS will be much easier to clean without damaging. Save $40. now, or save time cleaning every batch - your choice.

If you want to raise the temperature during the mash or for a mashout with the bag in, keeping it off the bottom is a good idea.

Sample recipe:

House IPA
Recipe Overview
Style: American IPA

ABV: 6.3%

Original Gravity (OG): 1.065
IBU's (Tinseth): 65
Bitterness to Gravity Ratio: 1

Kettle Efficiency (as in EIB and EAW): 78.1 %
Efficiency into Fermentor (EIF): 70.3 %

Note: This is a Pure BIAB (Full Volume Mash)

Times and Temperatures

Mash: 90 mins at 65.5 C = 149.9 F
Boil: 90 min

Volumes & Gravities

Total Water Needed (TWN): 37.91 L = 10.02 G
Volume into Boil (VIB): 33.67 L = 8.9 G @ 1.048
Volume of Ambient Wort (VAW): 23.86 L = 6.3 G @ 1.065
Volume into Fermentor (VIF): 21.5 L = 5.68 G @ 1.065
Volume into Packaging (VIP): 20.7 L = 5.47 G @ 1.016 assuming apparent attenuation of 75 %

The Grain Bill (Also includes extracts, sugars and adjuncts)

94.1% 2-Row (3.5 EBC = 1.8 SRM) 6313 grams = 13.92 pounds
2.5% Crystal 10 (40 EBC = 20.3 SRM) 169 grams = 0.37 pounds
3.4% Vienna 226 grams = 0.5 pounds


The Hop Bill

50.8 IBU Columbus Pellets (13%AA) 42 grams = 1.483 ounces at 60 mins
5.6 IBU Amarillo Pellets (10.8%AA) 28.1 grams = 0.99 ounces at 5 mins
0 IBU Falconers Flight Pellets (10.8%AA) 28 grams = 0.988 ounces at mins (Dry Hopped)

Mash Steps

Mash Type: Pure BIAB (Full-Volume Mash): Saccharifiaction for 90 mins at 65.5 C = 149.9 F

Strike Water Needed (SWN): 38.66 L = 10.21 G 66.5 C = 151.6 F

Mashout for for 10 mins at 78 C = 172.4 F
 
Aluminum is soft, scratches easily and the protective oxide layer can be removed by common cleansers.

Five minutes with PBW and a Scotch brite sponge and my SS pot looks like new.

I should have said aluminum is difficult to clean without damaging.

...I've never had an issue one cleaning my alumn pot. Nor have I had to use PBW on it or a scrub pad.
 
Aluminum is soft, scratches easily and the protective oxide layer can be removed by common cleansers.

Five minutes with PBW and a Scotch brite sponge and my SS pot looks like new.

I should have said aluminum is difficult to clean without damaging.

I disagree and my aluminum pot was $60 and the lid was like 10 or 15 for a 15 gallon pot. And for another 80 I am debating adding a 20 or 30 gallon pot to make 10-gallon batches Brew in a bag using multiple bags. What sold me was researching the debate and realizing that every commercial Kitchen in America uses aluminium by-and-large over stainless steel. In fact my pot came from a commercial online restaurant store. So did the table in my laundry room but anyways about cleaning I rinse it really well after I'm done Brewing really really well and with a rag. It is the hot side anyways. Shoot I figure my pot has got to be clean doesn't have a weld or seam on it and I get very personal with it I broke it in by boiling water in it too create a good oxidization layer and never scrub It Off. Never let anything build up either. I would like expensive stainless steel pot but I have many interests including Hi-Fi speakers get what I mean. Now I'm on the search of a used Grill.

Think about this The Emptiness inside the pot makes it valuable

View attachment 1461723645780.jpg

View attachment 1461723664685.jpg
 
Not sure what "every commercial kitchen" has to do with brewing, but every commercial brewery uses SS. Aluminum works and will be less expensive and a little lighter than SS - It just isn't better. I bought a 10 gallon heavy aluminum pot after reading posts like yours and regret the decision. I bought a 60L SS kettle for less than $100.00 and haven't looked back.

I just do not want other new brewers to make the same mistake I made based on the opinions of those trying to rationalize their choice of a (slightly) less expensive and inferior material.
 
I'm the exact opposite. I made a decision based on all the positives and couldn't be more happy with my alumn kettle. Built like a tank and holds heat like a mutha. I've never once considered it inferior to my stainless. In fact, quite the opposite.
 
Not sure what "every commercial kitchen" has to do with brewing, but every commercial brewery uses SS. Aluminum works and will be less expensive and a little lighter than SS - It just isn't better. I bought a 10 gallon heavy aluminum pot after reading posts like yours and regret the decision. I bought a 60L SS kettle for less than $100.00 and haven't looked back.

I just do not want other new brewers to make the same mistake I made based on the opinions of those trying to rationalize their choice of a (slightly) less expensive and inferior material.

You are wrong on all counts. Aluminum is the superior metal it retains heat better, is thicker, and is less expensive. The only rationale behind stainless steel is that it could potentially be seen as cleaner and has no fear of the myths around aluminum. The every commercial kitchen dispels the myths of mad hatter disease. Glad you enjoy your pot try to make it little more about that in the future and you will have more friends. I see you're new and you're coming on a little strong this debate is old and trust me you're not going to end it. Take it from somebody who came on a little strong and regrets it
 
How do you figure aluminum holds heat better? Based on thermal conductivity it will not! Aluminum is used for heat sinks in electronics for a reason, it sheds heat faster than steel!
 
How do you figure aluminum holds heat better? Based on thermal conductivity it will not! Aluminum is used for heat sinks in electronics for a reason, it sheds heat faster than steel!

You basically just made your own argument. Your correct. It's all about thermal conductivity and heat transfer. Based on those factors, aluminum performs both much better than stainless steel.

Aluminum does pretty decent as a heat sink. It's light weight and cheap. Copper does even better, but it's much heavier and costs more....guess the same could be said for cookware.
It's all about thermal conductivity and heat transfer.
I will say;
Stainless is pretty.
Stainless is fairly easy to clean.
Stainless is resistant to rust.
Stainless doesn't stain easily.
Stainless looks good hanging on my pot rack in the kitchen.
 
How do you figure aluminum holds heat better? Based on thermal conductivity it will not! Aluminum is used for heat sinks in electronics for a reason, it sheds heat faster than steel!

No. aluminum conducts heat better but it doesn't shed it better than any other material when the shedding is done to the ambient air. When at the interface between metal and air there should be negligible difference in losing heat.
 
Natural convection will keep air moving, if aluminum moves more heat to the outside it will also increase the convection. As I mentioned, there is a reason it used for heatsinks in electrics to get rid of heat! If stainless shed heat faster it would be used as a heatsink instead of aluminum!


No. aluminum conducts heat better but it doesn't shed it better than any other material when the shedding is done to the ambient air. When at the interface between metal and air there should be negligible difference in losing heat.
 
Natural convection will keep air moving, if aluminum moves more heat to the outside it will also increase the convection. As I mentioned, there is a reason it used for heatsinks in electrics to get rid of heat! If stainless shed heat faster it would be used as a heatsink instead of aluminum!

Think of this grilling apology : have you ever noticed when touching aluminum foil that has been on the grill or oven that it cools down relatively quickly compared something that is stainless steal? I think it's even true taking into account (and probably partly due) differences in density/weight. Intuitively, aluminum heats and cools more quickly.

I went with stainless as I got a great deal. Also, stainless should hold heat longer which would be beneficial for full volume biab mash, although it probably does take longer to get up to temperature.
 
Just wanted to add in that you guys should be arguing based on specific heat capacity, not thermal conductivity.

/carry on
 
I can't even remember what my original question was. Haha!

Just for ****s, what about copper? I don't think I have an extra grand laying around, but is copper any better by any measure?
 
No. aluminum conducts heat better but it doesn't shed it better than any other material when the shedding is done to the ambient air. When at the interface between metal and air there should be negligible difference in losing heat.

How can something conduct heat better if it doesn't shed it? Do you have any understanding of thermodynamics or are you just parroting stuff you read somewhere? If the material does not shed the heat it does not conduct it, it merely absorbs it.
 
In English . Bottom line is aluminum holds and conducts heat significantly better as is measurable, provable, and identifiable.

Again, if it "conducts heat" significantly better that means it cannot possibly "hold heat" significantly better since it will be conducting heat equally well in either direction, again due to the laws of thermodynamics.

Logic is not your best suit, is it?

And that is in English as well.
 
This thread took a detour down bullshat boulevard.

That's half the fun of these forums. The take away is that stainless is more expensive because it's prettier and it takes it longer to cool down and heat up, which is exactly what you want for biab- stable mash temps. However, it's not that big of deal: aluminum will get the job done with probably indistinguishable results for a cheaper price.
 
Folks, I know I am new here. Please forgive me in advance for the following rant. I hope I don't get booted from this forum but, I cannot let full bravado bull hockey go uncontested. I know I have already posted a couple responses to this guy but, I reread the thread and found a dismissive post that drove me over the wall.

Just so you know, I am not against aluminum cookware. I own several pieces. I also have replaced many pieces over the years. My ex-wife could ruin a piece of aluminum cookware faster that I could replace it. However, with care a good quality piece will last a lifetime if it is properly cared for. You will absolutely be able to make great beer with aluminum!

The choice of which material you desire is yours and yours alone. Both materials will work.

That said, statements that start with, "You are wrong on all counts." and then devolve into absurdity have to be addressed in my anal retentive mind.

You are wrong on all counts. Aluminum is the superior metal it retains heat better, is thicker, and is less expensive.

Is thicker? You can get either material in any gauge you want. Stainless is usually thinner in a given application because of its higher tensile strength. In other words, it takes thicker aluminum to be as strong as stainless steel because aluminum is a weaker material.

The only rationale behind stainless steel is that it could potentially be seen as cleaner and has no fear of the myths around aluminum.

I work in an industry that manufactures using metals. There really aren't any myths about aluminum that I know of. (Well, there is that myth that aluminum doesn't "rust." Let some moist salt sit on that aluminum for a while and you will see white rust, aluminum oxide.) We judge what material to use by it's mechanical and chemical properties. Your rationale is not rational.

The every commercial kitchen dispels the myths of mad hatter disease. Glad you enjoy your pot try to make it little more about that in the future and you will have more friends. I see you're new and you're coming on a little strong this debate is old and trust me you're not going to end it. Take it from somebody who came on a little strong and regrets it

Yeah. You came on here a little too strong too. Perhaps even snotty or snide. Tell us what particular type of aluminum your kettles are made of and I will give you a detailed assessment of that material versus the 304 stainless steel that is fairly universal in high end cookware, breweries, chemical process plants and other operations where liquids and heat are involved.

The downside of stainless steel in such uses is not only its cost but also the workability of the material. It is harder to drill, form, weld, and just about everything else. That said, it is in wide demand because of those properties that make it so hard to work with.

The upside is, when used in the manner we are using it, it will last a lifetime and overcome abuse and misuse.

You can blow smoke up some people's butts, but not mine.

Aluminum is a great material and is absolutely the best material at many things. My company uses it extensively, much more than stainless steel. But, only in the right applications.

For instance, aluminum ages (looses strength) collectively when exposed to temperatures above 300 degrees. For that reason, all aluminum ladders used by fire departments must have a temperature label to indicate that they have been exposed to 300 degrees and must be removed from service if so indicated.

/END RANT

Again, I am sorry if I stepped on any toes here, except for ten in particular.

Definitive statements like those I have addressed tend to make me hit the homebrew.

If you want to use aluminum, go right ahead. I don't have a problem with that. It will do the job just fine. and you will still brew great beer. Just don't go making unsubstantiated statements in public about it.
 
Folks, I know I am new here. Please forgive me in advance for the following rant. I hope I don't get booted from this forum but, I cannot let full bravado bull hockey go uncontested. I know I have already posted a couple responses to this guy but, I reread the thread and found a dismissive post that drove me over the wall.

Just so you know, I am not against aluminum cookware. I own several pieces. I also have replaced many pieces over the years. My ex-wife could ruin a piece of aluminum cookware faster that I could replace it. However, with care a good quality piece will last a lifetime if it is properly cared for. You will absolutely be able to make great beer with aluminum!

The choice of which material you desire is yours and yours alone. Both materials will work.

That said, statements that start with, "You are wrong on all counts." and then devolve into absurdity have to be addressed in my anal retentive mind.



Is thicker? You can get either material in any gauge you want. Stainless is usually thinner in a given application because of its higher tensile strength. In other words, it takes thicker aluminum to be as strong as stainless steel because aluminum is a weaker material.



I work in an industry that manufactures using metals. There really aren't any myths about aluminum that I know of. (Well, there is that myth that aluminum doesn't "rust." Let some moist salt sit on that aluminum for a while and you will see white rust, aluminum oxide.) We judge what material to use by it's mechanical and chemical properties. Your rationale is not rational.



Yeah. You came on here a little too strong too. Perhaps even snotty or snide. Tell us what particular type of aluminum your kettles are made of and I will give you a detailed assessment of that material versus the 304 stainless steel that is fairly universal in high end cookware, breweries, chemical process plants and other operations where liquids and heat are involved.

The downside of stainless steel in such uses is not only its cost but also the workability of the material. It is harder to drill, form, weld, and just about everything else. That said, it is in wide demand because of those properties that make it so hard to work with.

The upside is, when used in the manner we are using it, it will last a lifetime and overcome abuse and misuse.

You can blow smoke up some people's butts, but not mine.

Aluminum is a great material and is absolutely the best material at many things. My company uses it extensively, much more than stainless steel. But, only in the right applications.

For instance, aluminum ages (looses strength) collectively when exposed to temperatures above 300 degrees. For that reason, all aluminum ladders used by fire departments must have a temperature label to indicate that they have been exposed to 300 degrees and must be removed from service if so indicated.

/END RANT

Again, I am sorry if I stepped on any toes here, except for ten in particular.

Definitive statements like those I have addressed tend to make me hit the homebrew.

If you want to use aluminum, go right ahead. I don't have a problem with that. It will do the job just fine. and you will still brew great beer. Just don't go making unsubstantiated statements in public about it.

Im sorry, i didnt mean any offense.

I dont understand though why i only can find conductivity information and charts not dissipation charts. It makes sense thermodynamicly quick in quick out, but i wonder if i took these two pans in my hand outside here in clorado snow storm and put on porch which would cool first. I figure it wouldn't matter much compared to the thermo retainment property of a really thick 1070 wort in them. I was hoping someone could produce a figure comparing wort retention vs. metal, my reading says water has 10x heat retention of ss/aluminum thus the wort mass maintains biab mash not the metal, i wrap mine in feathers and a plastic bag.
 

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