Fruit (blackberries) in secondary

[FunkyMunk]

I'm planning a blackberry mead, with a total of around 6 pounds of fruit for a final product of around 2 gallons. I'd like to add half the fruit (3 lbs) in primary and the other half in secondary, to keep some of the flavor from the fruit intact. It seems like a lot of people do this, to get a well-rounded flavor from the fruit. For primary, I have a bucket with plenty of headspace, and will keep the fruit in a mesh bag for easy removal before racking.

After primary fermentation is done, I'm thinking I will rack from the bucket into a carboy, onto the next round of fruit, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the best way to deal with the fruit in secondary. The fruit is currently separated into two 3-lb bags in the freezer, and I'll thaw (and possibly sulfite the first round of fruit, probably not the second) before using. Here are my questions:

1) Should I just keep the fruit loose in the carboy? Or bag it? I'm worried the bag will just get in the way when I rack again to clarify before bottling, but maybe it won't.

2) Is a 3 gallon carboy large enough for 2 gallons or so of mead + 3 lbs of fruit? Should I alternatively use another bucket, or a larger carboy? Or just keep the whole thing in the same bucket used for primary, remove the first batch of blackberries and add the second?

3) Should I worry about seeds? I've read that keeping the mead on the fruit for too long will extract excess tannins from the seeds. I don't plan on long-term aging with the fruit, probably about 2 weeks total in secondary before racking again.

 

[CKuhns]

Six Pounds of Blackberries 3 in both primary and secondary will make it pretty flavorful, you will likely lose some of the honey notes and add a good bit of sweetness. If that is what you are looking for then you are on the right track.

1) Should I just keep the fruit loose in the carboy? Or bag it? I'm worried the bag will just get in the way when I rack again to clarify before bottling, but maybe it won't.
I have done both and prefer the bag approach. You can kind of tip it to the side when racking and work around it. You certainly can put the fruit in without it but i have found it is a lot harder to rack as the berries get sucked into the tube and plug things up.

2) Is a 3 gallon carboy large enough for 2 gallons or so of mead + 3 lbs of fruit? Should be more than enough room.
Should I alternatively use another bucket, or a larger carboy? Or just keep the whole thing in the same bucket used for primary, remove the first batch of blackberries and add the second? Your call but be sure to rack from primary off the lees and fruit first.

3) Should I worry about seeds? I've read that keeping the mead on the fruit for too long will extract excess tannins from the seeds. I don't plan on long-term aging with the fruit, probably about 2 weeks total in secondary before racking again.I would not worry about seeds in primary, have had them in primary for up to 25 days. BUT they do throw some tannens that can be a bit harsh. They do age out given enough time. I no longer do fruit in primary do tea for the tannens instead. I would not keep them longer than 2 weeks in secondary for the same reason.

 

[FunkyMunk]

Six Pounds of Blackberries 3 in both primary and secondary will make it pretty flavorful, you will likely lose some of the honey notes and add a good bit of sweetness. If that is what you are looking for then you are on the right track.

Well, I started with the amount of fruit and honey I have (approx. 7 lb of blackberry honey), and figured this would probably make a bit over 2 gallons of a 14% semi-sweet mead, and after racking losses I'd hopefully fill two 1-gallon jugs for bulk aging. I plan to adjust the initial volume to get a target OG of 1.115-1.120 or so with the ingredients I have. This will mostly be a pilot batch for educational purposes, since it will be my first true melomel. I'm ok with it being a fruit bomb, and pretty open as far as the final sweetness goes.

I have done both and prefer the bag approach. You can kind of tip it to the side when racking and work around it. You certainly can put the fruit in without it but i have found it is a lot harder to rack as the berries get sucked into the tube and plug things up.

This sounds pretty manageable. So I know to punch the cap down pretty often while the fruit is in primary, but should I do the same with the fruit in secondary? Should I stress more about keeping the fruit wet, or keeping oxygen out of the carboy (thus not opening it)?

 

[CKuhns]

"This sounds pretty manageable. So I know to punch the cap down pretty often while the fruit is in primary, but should I do the same with the fruit in secondary? Should I stress more about keeping the fruit wet, or keeping oxygen out of the carboy (thus not opening it)?"

Rather than punch the cap consider the bag and add a handful of sanitized flat marbles. They will sink the bag and fruit and then you wont have to worry about the cap or oxidation. (And its a LOT easier for clean up.)

If no bag then yes during primary punch the cap to release the CO2 and ensure the fruit on top stays moist and in the alcohol. Primary you should have no concern about oxidation as the ferment makes CO2 and fills your head space.

In secondary if no bag then releasing the CO2 in your Must is not a concern as your yeast are already heading for bed. Fruit will sometimes (often) restart a small ferment in secondary. I never open my carboys until I am ready to remove the fruit and or rack off lees. Again IMO oxidation is probably not as big a concern as long as air is only introduced infrequently.

In secondary I will swirl the Mead or gently rock the carboy every other day to ensure the fruit that floats stays moist. The alcohol will help keep the nastier stuff from growing.

 

[FunkyMunk]

Rather than punch the cap consider the bag and add a handful of sanitized flat marbles. They will sink the bag and fruit and then you wont have to worry about the cap or oxidation.

Do they have to be flat marbles? Any idea about how much weight I would need to sink 3 lbs of blackberries? I have some round marbles for weighing down hops, but they're only 1 1/2 ounces.

(On a side note, I just knocked a hydrometer down and it cracked, my first broken hydrometer in 8 years of brewing, although it was off anyway and I already have a replacement... just felt the need to mark the occasion!)

 

[CKuhns]

Not sure really how many marbles. I typically just do a couple of fist fulls.

Eight years is a pretty good run for a hydrometer.

 

[Baabaad00]

I'm planning on making a berry melomel also, but I was thinking of blending the berries into a puree to help extract the flavor. Wouldn't that be better? obviously, you cant put a puree is a bag. Do you get as much loss with a puree or more?

 

[FunkyMunk]

I'm planning on making a berry melomel also, but I was thinking of blending the berries into a puree to help extract the flavor. Wouldn't that be better? obviously, you cant put a puree is a bag. Do you get as much loss with a puree or more?

I've read that blending the berries into a puree isn't ideal since you will also be blending the seeds, which will adversely affect the flavor. I guess if you had a good way to extract the seeds you could do this; alternatively you could just mash the berries with a potato masher or something to help break them down. I ended up leaving my blackberries whole, figuring they will break down well enough with 2 weeks in the mead (they were previously frozen). This may not work well with other fruit, like blueberries which have thicker skins and might need to be broken down mechanically. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in.

 

[CKuhns]

Agree with FunkyMunk about the seeds when doing your own puree. Puree or mashing them also tends to release the pectin and in my opinion requires the use of Pectin Enzyme to break it unless you don't mind cloudy Mead. As far as loss with a puree it can be a bit more as it can be harder to rack cleanly from. Most berries including blueberries will kind of burst after a week or so and as said above i freeze and thaw them first. Yes, I have just mashed them a little but found little difference in flavor.