Friends say stout lacking maltyness

[Dhm8484]

My friends say that it drinks more like a porter than a stout. It's a dry irish stout and brewers friend says I hit everything for it to be a stout. Receipe is:
7.77 lb. Marris otter
13.7 oz. Roasted barley
6 oz. Chocolate malt
1 oz of northern brewer(German) 60 min.

Mashed at 153 (wanted 152) close enough
Ca 50, mg 10, na 27, CI 55, SO4 70 for water I use distilled. Mash ph according to Bru'n water was 5.42.

I do full volume mash no sparge, I did over shoot water calculations by almost half gallon so I just collected what I needed for boil.

I got 1.040 for starting gravity suppose to be 1.044

Final gravity ended at 1.012, was shooting for 1.010.

I got about 71% brewhouse efficiency

Fermented at 65 with Safale S-04 for two weeks then bottled and let sit for 4 weeks in bottles.

Any thoughts to my it's not maltier? I going to lean towards I added to much water to begin with.

 

[Yooper]

That's a fairly low grainbill and OG for a beer where you want more malt flavor. The easy way to fix it is to use more malt next time. Still, it looks great for a dry stout. Maybe the expectation was for a "bigger" stout, and not a dry stout? That's the only thing that I'd consider. You could add some flaked barley to the next batch, which isn't traditional for a dry stout but would give a fuller mouthfeel. Also, adding more chloride and reducing the sulfate would help with the perception of fullness.

 

[Dhm8484]

Okay thanks for the feed back and I followed the brewers friend for dry irish stout, I also carbed to 2 volumes

How much more malt would you add Yooper?

 

[Dhm8484]

Also I bottled 5.5 gallons

 

[Smellyglove]

I agree with all Yooper said above. Maybe your friends were expecting a sweet stout? Or something a bit more fuller than your dry stout? However. From 1.012 to 1.040, there aren't very many points. Also same with the water adjustments. But if you feel it lands right on the dry stout-specs, comparing to commercial examples, I'd just tell your friends that it's a dry stout, that's how it supposed to be. If it doesn't feel or taste like the commercial examples of a dry stout, I'd start to investigate where you can improve.

 

[Dhm8484]

To me I've tasted some that are like it and some that are off lol but I do know the barley is giving it a little harsh taste still. It's been in the bottle for a month now.

As far as the points my yeast only work at 65 %. I even put my heater on to raise temp to 67 for last couple of days. I think ABV is only like 3.8 or 3.9 BF had it at 4.34

 

[kevin58]

You could also mash higher to get a maltier flavor profile.

 

[bleme]

You ended up with a 3.7% ABV beer. While BJCP guidelines are 3.2-5.5%, most Americans expect 5+%. S-04 often leaves more sugar also. You might consider Nottingham of you want it dry.

 

[divrack]

I would say a typical Stout is less malty than a typical Porter.
discuss.

 

[Dhm8484]

Yea I didn't want to use S-04 I had a packet left in the fridge and decided to use it up.

 

[Dhm8484]

I just wrote down your guys info to make it better and put them into my notes for this recipe

 

[Smellyglove]

I would say a typical Stout is less malty than a typical Porter.
discuss.

Those two styles go almost hand-in-hand. I guess it's more about which stout/porter you taste. I have a regular recipe which is an Imp Stout where I vary boil times to make it either very full, or more easy drinking, for example. Same OG and almost same FG, but the difference is huge.

 

[Dhm8484]

I wanted to let 2 bottles age till August and enter it into my local home brew competition as a stout

 

[divrack]

Those two styles go almost hand-in-hand. I guess it's more about which stout/porter you taste. I have a regular recipe which is an Imp Stout where I vary boil times to make it either very full, or more easy drinking, for example. Same OG and almost same FG, but the difference is huge.

once you start modifying the words they can be almost anything you want but to me a regular Stout is easy drinking roasty but smooth whereas a porter has more malty caramel flavours and is full bodied. imperial Stout vs imp Porter seems to be the same thing though

 

[BigEd]

My friends say that it drinks more like a porter than a stout. It's a dry irish stout and brewers friend says I hit everything for it to be a stout. Receipe is:
7.77 lb. Marris otter
13.7 oz. Roasted barley
6 oz. Chocolate malt
1 oz of northern brewer(German) 60 min.

Mashed at 153 (wanted 152) close enough
Ca 50, mg 10, na 27, CI 55, SO4 70 for water I use distilled. Mash ph according to Bru'n water was 5.42.



I got 1.040 for starting gravity suppose to be 1.044



I got about 71% brewhouse efficiency

Fermented at 65 with Safale S-04 for two weeks then bottled and let sit for 4 weeks in bottles.

Any thoughts to my it's not maltier? I going to lean towards I added to much water to begin with.

What's the volume of your recipe? Assuming a "standard" 5 Gal/19 L recipe your OG does seem a bit low. Perhaps your efficiency is not quite what you think it is. At any rate you could simply add more pale malt, boosting it by 10% or so. Also, even though it is not malt, unmalted flaked barley is a very common ingredient in this style. While it doesn't add maltiness per se, flaked barley can add to the texture of the beer giving some of that "creaminess" Irish stouts are know for. That added texture will not hurt in boosting the overall sensory perception and probably make this taste more like an Irish stout should be like to regular drinkers of the style. Adding flaked barley in the amount of 10% of the grist bill would be a good place to start. A softer yeast wouldn't hurt either, IMO. Try one of the traditional Irish stout yeasts next time.

So maybe:

8.5 lb MO pale malt

1 lb flaked barley

14-16 oz roasted barley

6-8 oz chocolate malt

 

[cloudybrewer]

. I have a regular recipe which is an Imp Stout where I vary boil times to make it either very full, or more easy drinking, for example. Same OG and almost same FG, but the difference is huge.

Sorry for the hijack, but can you explain how you change boil time while maintaining OG to affect the fullness? I'm trying to learn how to make a stout the way I like it.

 

[Smellyglove]

Sorry for the hijack, but can you explain how you change boil time while maintaining OG to affect the fullness? I'm trying to learn how to make a stout the way I like it.

Just use more water and boil longer to hit the target OG. Or less water and boil shorter for same OG. It's the maillard-reactions (and something more) which gives a fuller body due to longer boil.

 

[cloudybrewer]

Just use more water and boil longer to hit the target OG. Or less water and boil shorter for same OG. It's the maillard-reactions (and something more) which gives a fuller body due to longer boil.

Thanks. I've read about the maillard reactions and carmelizations and such. Might have to try this. Thank you

 

[mabrungard]

With the chocolate malt, it may not be a surprise that its perceived more porter-like. Dry Stout is more of a single 'roast barley' note.

The lower SG might have something to do with the reduction in malt perception. Possibly too much extract was left in the mash bed?

I've noticed that Guinness draught seems to be a bit less roasty and bitter in the past year or so. I can actually taste malt in that beer now. It had always been excessively dry and roasty to me, in years past.

 

[Dhm8484]

Okay maybe next time I will cut down on some of the chocolate malt and add a little more marris otter to help bring SG up a little

 

[Dhm8484]

I revamped the recipe for my American Stout sorry for the poor picture it's

9.46 pounds of Maris otter
1.18 pounds of roasted barley
6.7 ounces of chocolate malt
11.7 ounces of flaked barley

Northern Brewer at 60 min.
East Kent goldings at 20 min.

Switched to nottingham yeast
Mash at 153 5.5 gallon batch

1.055 OG
1.012 FG
5.63% ABV
39.67 IBU

Let me know what you guys think thanks.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I agree with the change in mash temp, but in your initial input you stated you added more water and your friends thought the beer wasn't malty enough.

The added water would in fact "water it down", but I'm thinking they may have also been talking about mouthfeel and body.

It's too late now (already bottled), but two things come to mind...adding oats in the mash and (pre-bottling) adding Malto-Dextrin for improved body and mouthfeel.

 

[Dhm8484]

I did add more 2 row malt this time so my grain bill last time was 9 pounds and some and now I'm up to 11, also added the flaked barley to help with mouthfeel

 

[Dhm8484]

And yes I did go from 5.3 gallons up to 5.5 so I'm going to make all my batches 5.5 gallons and to me it was missing the heaviness you get from a stout which is mouthfeel

 

[mabrungard]

Remember that bittering and roast are both counters to malt. If that’s a roasty stout, it’s possible that 40 IBUs is a bit much.