Fresh pressed cider had two layers?

[Motard]

Hello all,

New to the forum! This is my second year home brewing ciders. I take my son Apple picking once a year and we make cider with a homemade apple press. This year i was A little short on pressed juice and added a gallon of cider ( bought from the place where we picked the Apples). The pressed stuff is more sour than usual and looking at my carboy there is a distinct layer of separation. Anyone have any idea why? The juices should mix readily and only something non water soluble and with a different weight should sit on top or below. What in the world could it be?

Thanks

 

[dmtaylor]

You probably just have tiny chunks of apple pulp in the juice, which will settle out and compress after a day or two and/or after fermentation is complete. Nothing to be concerned about.

 

[Scrumpy!]

See below

 

[Scrumpy!]

Was the clarity of your pressed juice different from the jug of farm pressed juice? Did the cloudy layer develop when you blended them? Was the farm pressed juice as sour as your home pressed juice?

The apples you pressed could be more sour than your previous apples because they are more acidic, the apples were not completely ripe or both. If the apples were not ripe, they had not completely converted their starch into sugar. This starch could form the haze you see or it could be related to the pectin content of the apples.

Normally, you would pick the apples and let them sit in a pile until all the starch has been converted to sugar. This can take several weeks. As they say, "you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube" so your pressed juice (must) is what you have to work with. I would add enough sulfite based on the pH of the must to kill any undesirable bacteria, add some apple pectinase, wait 24 hours then pitch a cider yeast like White Labs English Cider Yeast and hope for the best. There is a good chance that the must will clear during fermentation.

Even if it remains cloudy or hazy, it still may taste fine. Lots of farm stand ciders in the UK and Europe are cloudy. There are commercial ciders in the US like JK Scrumpy which are cloudy. If the apples were not ripe, your ABV will be lower because the yeast will not convert much if any of that starch into alcohol.

Best of Luck with this.

 

[Motard]

The clarity was not different as they where both very cloudy (expected) but my pressed version was much lighter in color. The cloudy layer only developed when they where blended. The farm pressed was much sweater than my home pressed version but that may be from the apples selected. I added a bunch of granny smith apples from work because I got them for free, prob a bad move now that I think about it.

I have already pitched and pectin-ated the batch. It went like crazy at first for a little over a week and just now started slowing down. The bilayer is gone now with a thick cake on the bottom. Still a bit hazy but ill see how that stands up after I rank it to secondary.

I hope there was not to much starch in the batch. I guess that will be reflected in my specific gravity at the end if they cant use it. I started at exactly 1.05. Even if that does not end up the case in this matter definitely learned something new today! Should I leave the apples picked in the basement for a week or so before fermenting them?

It is incredibly satisfying to press your on apples, and take that on to fermentation. Not to mention that my batch from last year was the best I have ever had! I need to figure out a good cider recipe! Something DARK and SWEET! Any ideas?

Thanks Motard!

PS. last year I learned the mistake of not keeping a log. Best cider I ever had...Never to be recreated again.

 

[Scrumpy!]

Sounds like everything is going well now. Every batch is a learning experience.

Free apples are good. The Granny's may have had a bit of pectin in them. There is a simple test. Mix a little of your must with rubbing alcohol in a small narrow glass or test tube. Any pectin will form waxy looking globs and sink to the bottom of the glass. Pectinase is probably most effective if mixed with your pomace. If you mix it in and let it sit for a few hours or even overnight if the weather is cool your pomace will yield more juice. The pectin in solution will probably settle out with the lees and you will have a nice clear cider once the primary fermentation settles down. Secondary fermentation is what takes place in the bottle when you are carbonating. Racking from a fermentation bucket to a carboy is still the same primary stage of fermentation.

Your apples are ready to press when you can leave a dent in them with the ball of your your thumb. You can also do an iodine test for starch. You can find numerous sites that will tell you how to do the test. Just use the search words "iodine starch test".

I sweat some of my apples for weeks before pressing them. Keep them out of direct sunlight so they stay cool and be sure they get plenty of air circulation. Not only does your SG go up by converting starch to sugar but the concentration of sugar goes up because the apples are losing water. Some of your apples will start to rot during sweating. Ten percent rotten apples going into the press has never had a negative effect on my cider though I won't use them if they are moldy. You are going to kill any bacteria when you sulfite the fresh pressed must anyway.

 

[Motard]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Due to the cloudy look, I decided to rack the cider (and taste it ), off the lees and give it another month. The abv came out to 7.38% which was higher than expected but it taste good despite the cloudy look. I had added pectinase when I originally started fermentation. Any ideas on clearing it up further? I'm guessing there us little to no starch since the gravity dropped so much, so I don't think it is that. Anyway here are some updated pics, and thank you everyone so far. Feel like I just keep learning more and more every time!

 

[globell]

I'm also wondering if pectin enzyme can be added both before fermentation and after.

 

[oldmate]

Pectinase can be added post fermentation but isn't as effective due to the presence of alcohol.

I find that time and patience are best at clearing but you could try some gelatin or chitosan.

 

[Scrumpy!]

Give it another month and it will probably clear. Gelatin and other fining agents will strip some color and flavor so you might sacrifice flavor for cosmetics. Nothing wrong with drinking cloudy cider.

If you do use gelatin, be sure you get it from a wine supply store. Buy some kieselsol to chase it with. The gelatin will scavenge up any negative charged material including any tannins in solution. The kieselsol will scavenge positively charged material including the gelatin. I found that mixing in the gelatin solution, waiting an hour then mixing in the kieselsol, then waiting a day or two clears up most hazes. Follow the directions on each to the T since over use of gelatin will cause a new haze of its own.