Fotek SSR's are not THAT bad...

[MrShake]

I just posted them on Brewtroller.com for those who want them.

If you want to cutout the middle man, there are a ton for sale on alibaba.com and aliexpress.com as well, that is where I bought the ones I have put up for sale.

 

[MrShake]

Thanks.

Good to know about the Mager.

I understand brewtroller.com is a U.S.-oriented site. Do you have by any chance shipping-to-Europe friendly rates? Otherwise, do you know of any similar reliable source this side of the pond?

Cheers!

I haven't yet found a good and cheap way to ship outside of the US. I have offered to ship United States Postal Service International Flat Rate for others, though thats not cheap.

I'd be happy to ship via any method you want.

 

[alphaomega]

@MrShake : Ok, I'll try to explain as clearly as I can.

The thing is, you bashed the knockoffs, saying you should buy from a trusted source, that you have a good source, you will re-sell them and your source is ali.

I don't have a problem with you selling SSR's at markup. I'm sure that will be good option for a lot of ppl. Be open about it though, ali is a big place, you'd need to link to a specific item or at least a specific store.

Secondly, there is no guarantee that the SSR's you sell are not knockoffs either. They might just be from another batch with another triac or another factory. They might be genuine, but as your source is ali, you really shouldn't bash on the knockoffs to try to sell your SSR's, especially if you have no proof that yours are genuine.
Edit: Yeah, I checked brewtroller.com. So you got the 40A version. Off ali. Re-selling for $12. I wouldn't be so fast to call them genuine just because they've not failed.

So, you felt I attacked you. Well, maybe I did. But I hope you can follow my reasoning above. It just ticks me off, when you say you have a good source, just just won't share it with anyone, because you figure you can sell them yourself.

Also, I have *zero* interest in where anybody gets their SSR's from. I just thought the video I posted in the first post was interesting. All I ever claimed here was that, even though not up to spec, what you *actually* get for 5 bucks is not that bad. People seem to really take offence that it is not as advertised. Well, the same thing goes for buying "Ray-Bans" for 5 bucks. It may still be a good enough deal though. If you want something that is up to spec, can be trusted and has support, then you should buy genuine from a reputable retailer with a trusted chain of supply. It is that simple.
If you have five bucks and are willing to wait 3 weeks, the knockoffs seem to be good enough to play around with if you just don't put to much load on them.

 

[MrShake]

I'm sorry, this accomplished nothing, I have removed my post

 

[alphaomega]

I also appreciate the work you put in, in finding a seller that does seem to have a better product. No wait, I don't, since you won't share. You are well within your right to do so, it is just not very nice.
5500W at 240V is ~23A or about half the rated current. That is pretty much in line with the findings in the video.

I just think it is uncool to:

1) not share if you found something out that could benefit others. Sure, it could cost you a few sales, but you'd gain cred.

2) preach the dangers of knockoffs, then directing ppl to your store, where you sell "genuine" SSR's. That a 40A SSR can handle 23A does not make it genuine. Sure they might be genuine, but being sourced cheap and off ali speaks against that. And you just don't know. You don't know if the next batch will handle 23A either.

It is good though that you are willing to stand behind your product. I'm sure that would be worth the markup.

I think MY points are still valid as well. I have no problem dropping this discussion also.

 

[augiedoggy]

I also appreciate the work you put in, in finding a seller that does seem to have a better product. No wait, I don't, since you won't share. You are well within your right to do so, it is just not very nice.
5500W at 240V is ~23A or about half the rated current. That is pretty much in line with the findings in the video.

I just think it is uncool to:

1) not share if you found something out that could benefit others. Sure, it could cost you a few sales, but you'd gain cred.

2) preach the dangers of knockoffs, then directing ppl to your store, where you sell "genuine" SSR's. That a 40A SSR can handle 23A does not make it genuine. Sure they might be genuine, but being sourced cheap and off ali speaks against that. And you just don't know. You don't know if the next batch will handle 23A either.

It is good though that you are willing to stand behind your product. I'm sure that would be worth the markup.

I think MY points are still valid as well. I have no problem dropping this discussion also.

You know this all has a very familiar feeling to it.... I recall me being on the exact same end of this argument when looking for a reliable source for A400P stc 1000 units to flash and I didnt want to pay double the retail price from someone who bought them in bulk for much less only to resell them for more than twice what he paid with no reflashing done to them My message was not recieved well on your thread....

Unfortunately its no different than what most vendors do now days... I have pointed out time and time again that the exact same products that companies like Auberins sell are just generic Chinese stuff they rebrand and mark up to over double what they pay for it... All that does is piss most people off though because they "choose" to believe that it they pay more for it, its somehow a different product and if they buy it from an american seller its not longer "Cheap chinese junk".... its an old arguement... only the old 30-35% markup has now grown to 100% or more for some reason? in this case MRshake is paying $2-3 a piece for these ssrs in bulk and shaking $12 plus shipping out of fellow home brewers for them right? Thats what somewhere between 300-600% markup? Its things like this that give a real indication of the type of markups you pay on everything else from that vendor in my opinion...

Again if it were me I would avoid the white generic ssrs all together and just buy a known good one like the mager brand ones for practically the same price... I havent had any issues with my foteks but I wouldnt chance it again... just not worth the what $4 savings? and why buy a $4 ssr for $12 plus shipping when you can have a better one with a heatsink and thermal paste for less? here are the Mager ssrs for $7 with shipping.. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mage...52&btsid=8345ca04-35d4-4573-8e29-f353ef9d884a

One easy way to distinguish many fakes is the lack of "made in Taiwan" on the sticker.... The clear plastic cover is also an indication of a real one although the older real ones did not have this cover that im aware of.

 

[alphaomega]

You know this all has a very familiar feeling to it.... I recall me being on the exact same end of this argument when looking for a reliable source for A400P stc 1000 units to flash and I didnt want to pay double the retail price from someone who bought them in bulk for much less only to resell them for more than twice what he paid with no reflashing done to them My message was not recieved well on your thread....

Unfortunately its no different than what most vendors do now days... I have pointed out time and time again that the exact same products that companies like Auberins sell are just generic Chinese stuff they rebrand and mark up to over double what they pay for it... All that does is piss most people off though because they "choose" to believe that it they pay more for it, its somehow a different product and if they buy it from an american seller its not longer "Cheap chinese junk".... its an old arguement... only the old 30-35% markup has now grown to 100% or more for some reason? in this case MRshake is paying $2-3 a piece for these ssrs in bulk and shaking $12 plus shipping out of fellow home brewers for them right? Thats what somewhere between 300-600% markup? Its things like this that give a real indication of the type of markups you pay on everything else from that vendor in my opinion...

Again if it were me I would avoid the white generic ssrs all together and just buy a known good one like the mager brand ones for practically the same price... I havent had any issues with my foteks but I wouldnt chance it again... just not worth the what $4 savings? and why buy a $4 ssr for $12 plus shipping when you can have a better one with a heatsink and thermal paste for less?

One easy way to distinguish many fakes is the lack of "made in Taiwan" on the sticker.... The clear plastic cover is also an indication of a real one although the older real ones did not have this cover that im aware of.

You are right. The same thing happened with the A400_P STC's. And let me tell you, if it was me personally that had located the manufacturer, I would have shared. I asked Will to to please make it known and he finally did. And now you can choose to DIY an STC-1000+. with no (well, little at least) risk of getting the wrong unit or added cost. I have never had a financial interest in STC-1000+, I have been as open about all my work with STC-1000+ as I've could.

The mager ones does look good. Now, I'm tempted to buy a few just to cut one open
And I totally agree. I've had good luck with the Foteks myself. I mainly buy the 40A ones, and we're on 230VAC here and 10 amp fuses. I rarely use them with more than a couple amps though.

 

[PeteNMA]

Buying from someone like Auber gets you a seller in the US you can complain to if needed. Thats worth something to some people. Some of us are fine to play the odds, some of us want it to just work first time

 

[MrShake]

Sorry, this accomplished nothing, I have removed the post

 

[MrShake]

Buying from someone like Auber gets you a seller in the US you can complain to if needed. Thats worth something to some people. Some of us are fine to play the odds, some of us want it to just work first time

Agreed Pete!! And Auber's price point is very reasonable, and I would not hesitate to tell someone to trust them!!

 

[MrShake]

Sorry, this accomplished nothing, so I removed my post.

 

[iijakii]

1) I'm not going to let you bully me into giving away something I worked HARD to find for "cred". I will earn "cred" by offering great products and customer service. Find a customer of mine, they will back that up!

Do you sell panels or something? What's your company?

 

[MrShake]

I took over BrewTroller last year. http://www.brewtroller.com

 

[iijakii]

Ah, that makes more sense on not giving up your suppliers now, lol.

 

[MrShake]

Ah, that makes more sense on not giving up your suppliers now, lol.

Thanks man!!

 

[augiedoggy]

These cheap fotaek and knock off ssrs have been used by members here for years... as far as these go I dont see how you "worked hard" for anything when it comes to marking them up and selling them... all it took was buying some from different vendors and then sticking with a vendor whom your CUSTOMERS had the best luck testing for you with no failures as you basically said earlier.
This is not some new product you discovered or had a hand in developing... Its a commonly available $4 relay. and it doesnt take a lot of work to find the real ones on amazon or aliexpress . Its totally your right to not tell us where you get them and I for one could care less... I was mainly commenting on how you make a bulk purchase on aliexpress buying them for $3-4 a piece with shipping and then turn around and sell them for $12 each plus shipping.... In my opinion that is not a fair way to do it at all, but hey thats for your customers to decide.

 

[augiedoggy]

Buying from someone like Auber gets you a seller in the US you can complain to if needed. Thats worth something to some people. Some of us are fine to play the odds, some of us want it to just work first time

Good point but I'll point out my experience from many many purchases.

Every time I bought an item from a Chinese vendor and there was an issue with it, The vendor either refunded me or sent me a replacement for no charge... its not like the vendors on ebay or the like have no accountability although that is the misconception here all too often.

I got an unfair deal twice in my 1000+ ebay purchases , once with a $2 safety switch which I never received and I honestly didnt notice until well over a month had passed and once with a $12 pt100 sensor that started rusting... The seller pointed out it was not advertised to be made of stainless and I had already left positive feedback early instead of waiting like I usually do. all this cost me maybe $15 which is a drop in a bucket compared to the thousands I saved vs buying from other vendors.

 

[PeteNMA]

Ive had different experiences myself so YMMV. Plus waiting three weeks for a dead part to show up then another three weeks for a replacement just seems crazy

 

[MrShake]

Nevermind, this is not worth engaging with.

 

[alphaomega]

While I appreciate that we seem to have reached the end of this discussion, I just re-read the thread, to see exactly what was said. And I find that MrShake, has deleted most all of his posts. Now, I'm really not looking to start anything again, so I won't state my opinion on doing so.
Fortunately, I think you can get the gist of it even without his posts, should anyone read this thread later on.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Makes me wonder if my 2 Foteks are fake, they probably are..done 4 brews though so far with no issue.

I do have a few Auber 40A SSR's i bought as well later on that Ive thought about swapping out, maybe ill do that before my next brew after reading this thread.

 

[alphaomega]

@FuzzeWuzze: That might no be a bad idea

I found this UL announcement; http://ul.com/newsroom/publicnotices/ul-warns-of-solid-state-relay-with-counterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/
The thing to look out for should be that the notching in the lower right corner of the sticker, has a matching protrusion in the case, preventing the sticker to accidentally being applied the wrong way (so the input and output terminals would be swapped).

Also, I noticed that the stickers does seem to have a difference in appearance. However, I don't know how reliable that is.
For example the text on the genuine:

Solid State Module
Rated: XXA max.
Taiwan made

One of the reasons I don't know how reliable that is, is that this picture is found on Fotek's own product page:

Which itself looks a bit different, but might be due to them not updating their site (sorry for the small size, it seems to be what is available from Fotek). Notice though that on neither the image from UL or from Fotek, the text "Made in Taiwan" appears, (it's either "Taiwan made" or nothing).

I've done some light searching on the usual suspects, to see if I could find something, that could be genuine and found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fotek-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-40DA-SSR40DA-New-In-Box-QTY-5-Per-Lot-/291454258612

Now, I know. You can't trust the images on eBay to be representative of the actual product, but at least it has the actual sellers water mark and the image does seem to show a genuine SSR as per the UL announcement.
There might be cheaper ones than this, but at $173 for 5 pieces, (that is $34,60 per SSR), even if a cheaper source of genuine SSR's is to be found, they probably won't come at $6 a pop, like some claim (you know who I'm talking about...).

Now, this does not mean that there could be better knockoffs to be had. Or that the Mager ones could be "genuine" (or at least of better quality than most Fotek knockoffs).

Edit: I still maintain though, that ~$4 for one of the Fotek knockoffs, is not a bad deal for what you get. You just shouldn't put a lot of load on them. They can have a use, but just use them with care and for low power applications.

Edit2: This instructable also has some good info on the subject. Someone mentioned in the comments that PQLYT SSR's seems to be performing quite well also. Here's a link to one of those. It seems to be a few bucks more expensive, but they state it uses a BTA41 800B triac and it also seems to be sealed properly as well. Might not be a bad deal.

 

[augiedoggy]

@FuzzeWuzze: That might no be a bad idea

I found this UL announcement; http://ul.com/newsroom/publicnotices/ul-warns-of-solid-state-relay-with-counterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/
The thing to look out for should be that the notching in the lower right corner of the sticker, has a matching protrusion in the case, preventing the sticker to accidentally being applied the wrong way (so the input and output terminals would be swapped).

Also, I noticed that the stickers does seem to have a difference in appearance. However, I don't know how reliable that is.
For example the text on the genuine:


One of the reasons I don't know how reliable that is, is that this picture is found on Fotek's own product page:

Which itself looks a bit different, but might be due to them not updating their site (sorry for the small size, it seems to be what is available from Fotek). Notice though that on neither the image from UL or from Fotek, the text "Made in Taiwan" appears, (it's either "Taiwan made" or nothing).

I've done some light searching on the usual suspects, to see if I could find something, that could be genuine and found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fotek-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-40DA-SSR40DA-New-In-Box-QTY-5-Per-Lot-/291454258612

Now, I know. You can't trust the images on eBay to be representative of the actual product, but at least it has the actual sellers water mark and the image does seem to show a genuine SSR as per the UL announcement.
There might be cheaper ones than this, but at $173 for 5 pieces, (that is $34,60 per SSR), even if a cheaper source of genuine SSR's is to be found, they probably won't come at $6 a pop, like some claim (you know who I'm talking about...).

Now, this does not mean that there could be better knockoffs to be had. Or that the Mager ones could be "genuine" (or at least of better quality than most Fotek knockoffs).

Edit: I still maintain though, that ~$4 for one of the Fotek knockoffs, is not a bad deal for what you get. You just shouldn't put a lot of load on them. They can have a use, but just use them with care and for low power applications.

Edit2: This instructable also has some good info on the subject. Someone mentioned in the comments that PQLYT SSR's seems to be performing quite well also. Here's a link to one of those. It seems to be a few bucks more expensive, but they state it uses a BTA41 800B triac and it also seems to be sealed properly as well. Might not be a bad deal.

90% of the foteks bought and used on homebrewtalk are used as ssrs for heating elements and most of them are 18 amps or more applications so... an ssr rates and safe for only 12a has limited useful application here the was I see it but I'm not arguing they arent good for 12a or less.

 

[Cardog]

I won't comment on fake vs real or the quality but just to share my experiences. I run six 25amp Fotek SSR's that yes, got off of ebay from China. The only reason why I got 25 amps is because I found a seller selling them cheaper then the guy selling the 10 amp ones.

1 controls a the fermenter @ 2 amps, 2 of them control my pumps @ 1 amp ea. and the other 3 control my gas valves @ 0.5 amps ea.

So as to confirm the consensus with the ratings and reliability, these have worked flawless for 2 years.

 

[alphaomega]

@augiedoggy: Sure, and for higher amps getting a better SSR makes sense. The Mager or Pqlyt ones seem promising or just shell out for a brand one from a trusted vendor.
Where I'm at, we have 230VAC and most outlets are 10A, so we are not all that limited. Still, the post by @Cardog also show other low power usages.
Limited usage for you guys? Sure. But not unusable.

 

[0wly055]

just had a 40a fotek take a crap on me in my 2.5 gallon 13A brew system on the first run. melted the crap out of it and it got stuck in on position. I use the exact same ones in my 5500w system and they ahve been running strong for over 6 months, seems like quality is super hit or miss.

 

[alphaomega]

@0wly055: It isn't as much about quality as what triac happen to be be used. You can 'luck out' and stumble on a Fotek branded knock off that happens to use a triac that is rated for more than 10A.

 

[ITSRyan]

Hello,
There are many fake foteks on the market.
here is the UL warning and how to spot a fake (but even that is a bit outdated) https://www.ul.com/newsroom/publicn...nterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/

My company, Infinite Thermal Solutions INC, is the official USA distributor. We are listed on Fotek's website under the sales channel. We get our relays directly from Fotek. We have solved many problems because they were using counterfeit units.

If you want any additional information, please email us @ [email protected]

 

[day_trippr]

I think the official Fotek USA distributor should immediately launch a gloriously huge Fotek SSR marketing campaign with products offered at discounts that leave the end users happy to buy more...

Cheers!

 

[augiedoggy]

Hello,
There are many fake foteks on the market.
here is the UL warning and how to spot a fake (but even that is a bit outdated) https://www.ul.com/newsroom/publicn...nterfeit-ul-recognition-mark-release-13pn-52/

My company, Infinite Thermal Solutions INC, is the official USA distributor. We are listed on Fotek's website under the sales channel. We get our relays directly from Fotek. We have solved many problems because they were using counterfeit units.

If you want any additional information, please email us @ [email protected]

that information is already posted above in this thread and is no longer valid though as another person pointed out in another webpage (which I dont have handy) that some of the fakes now use identical markings...

this manufacturer has photos on both types of stickers.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.details.maylikehoz.11.468c105aMUttvh

and then theres these with pictures of the same factory? which appear to have the fake sticker you mention for a cent each...

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60460906970.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.pfSuIa

and yet again the correct markings and stickers from the same Yueqing Kampa Electric Co., Ltd. factory...

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...pm=a2700.details.maylikehoz.17.3e287f38e4uZSp

going by this one could easily assume both the counterfeit and real foteks are made in the same factory "Kampa OEM" as often happens?? you can see how this makes a person skeptical.