Fotek SSR's are not THAT bad...

[alphaomega]

...you just need to ~halve the specs

Stumbled over this video on the tubes, and thought it was interesting.
Nice to know the Foteks are semi-decently designed, just not quite up to specs.



All the more reason to get the 40A versions and hope it really has a beefier TRIAC (and not just a different sticker).

 

[augiedoggy]

I read the same before on other site.

 

[BrunDog]

It's ok that the actual triac is rated for 12A but the device is labeled for 25?

 

[alphaomega]

It's ok that the actual triac is rated for 12A but the device is labeled for 25?

Yes it is. When buying off eBay, aliexpress, bangood or whatever, you need to know that you don't pay a fraction of what a brand product cost and expect same quality.
I don't even think they are (intentionally) lying when it is branded 25A. It probably started out as a design with a beefier triac, but then costs have been cut to meet a price point.
What is good, is that they are reasonably well designed and built (that is not immediately dangerous, which there are a good deal of products that are). And they are really, really, REALLY cheap.

So, bottom line, no they are not comparable to quality SSR's and no they should no be used for everything. But, if you know what to expect, they are very good value for money.

 

[PeteNMA]

Actually if you get real FOTEK SSRs then they are fully capable of handling their rated current. The reason they have a bad reputation is that there are a lot of fakes out there. People buy a 40A SSR from a chinese seller on Amazon for $5 and are surprised when its not genuine.

Fake semiconductors are not a new phenomenon (see here http://sound.westhost.com/counterfeit.htm for a write up from 2012)

 

[greengt]

How would I check if I have a original or a copy?

 

[BrunDog]

... And they are really, really, REALLY cheap.

I keep hearing this. But I don't understand why people do not value their time. Buying a really cheap product, only to have it fail and replace it doesn't make sense to me. I get really pissed when I have to redo a portion of a project because the components don't match their specs. Its not worth it to me, even if the components are free.

 

[alphaomega]

Oh man, not again...
You can't draw everything in black and white. Just because it is cheap it does not need to be bad and even more true, something need not be good because it is expensive. It is about knowing what you need and what it costs.
I just said that it is not good for everything, but it can be good for some things.

Man, you just can't read and understand can you? You just have to jump to your own (faulty) conclusions, don't you...

 

[MrShake]

These knockoff fosteks have been causing havoc for BrewTroller users who need the higher amp ratings. Melting cases and failures have been common. I think we finally did find a supplier of genuine items that are working well. I would NOT buy on Amazon for sure. Every 40a Fostek SSR I've bought there in the last 6 months has been a knockoff.

If you are in need of real 40a, let me know and I can try to help.

 

[BrunDog]

Oh man, not again...
You can't draw everything in black and white. Just because it is cheap it does not need to be bad and even more true, something need not be good because it is expensive. It is about knowing what you need and what it costs.
I just said that it is not good for everything, but it can be good for some things.

Man, you just can't read and understand can you? You just have to jump to your own (faulty) conclusions, don't you...

ok

 

[alphaomega]

ok

Quite the rebuttal.
Well, I'm sorry if I was too harsh, but it is not the first time that you just ignore the point I'm making and just quote the one part that you disagree with (out of context).

 

[augiedoggy]

How would I check if I have a original or a copy?

I googled it once and found a site with pics explaining how to tell fakes... Turns out all mine are fakes. No issues with them though..

hers one article with a quoted warning in regards to the missing UL listing from some fakes.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...cognition-mark-release-13pn-52-242919311.html

 

[iijakii]

In a previous control panel I had one fail on the second brew, the other on the 3rd brew. Then both replacements lasted a year (not too sure how many brews.. 15 maybe?) without issues before I sold it. Wonder if I had 'fakes' the first time around but not hte second?

It was fine, but I just went ahead and bought Aubers this time around. If I hadn't felt lazy I'd have bought the OG-brand Aubers on ebay for cheap but I couldn't remember what name they were under. I know Brumateur or whatever uses them in his panels though.

 

[augiedoggy]

In a previous control panel I had one fail on the second brew, the other on the 3rd brew. Then both replacements lasted a year (not too sure how many brews.. 15 maybe?) without issues before I sold it. Wonder if I had 'fakes' the first time around but not hte second?

It was fine, but I just went ahead and bought Aubers this time around. If I hadn't felt lazy I'd have bought the OG-brand Aubers on ebay for cheap but I couldn't remember what name they were under. I know Brumateur or whatever uses them in his panels though.

"Mager" makes them and rebrands them for auber... They also appear to sell them under other name brands like "Berme" as well. For $12 shipped with thermal paste and a heat sink I think thats a much better deal then the fake foteks honestly...

I'm pretty damn sure after doing a side by side comparision that the "MYpin" branded ones and likely the ones that inkbird sells under thier brand name are all the same as the knock off foteks made by the same generic manufacturer. The markings on the back and the machine markings indicate so. It would be interesting to see what the components for the 40A ssrs are really reated for or if they are not all the same SSR just labeled differently.

Since so many here follow the overkill rule of using a 40A ssr for a 22amp or less load I believe thats what keeps the failures as low as they are with these.

 

[Rivenin]

Oh man, not again...
You can't draw everything in black and white. Just because it is cheap it does not need to be bad and even more true, something need not be good because it is expensive. It is about knowing what you need and what it costs.
I just said that it is not good for everything, but it can be good for some things.

Man, you just can't read and understand can you? You just have to jump to your own (faulty) conclusions, don't you...

So the problem i have with your opinion on this... If someone goes in and buys a 25amp fotek SSR for a 22amp project, well within limits and specs. however, the SSR is only rated for 12amp. You have an overheating and fire problem...

I didn't know anything about faulty SSR's with foteks until i smelled burning plastic on my 3rd or 4th brew and opened my case to find one of my SSR's melted. The same thing is likely to happen again with the failure rate of these... this is why i didn't cheap out this last time and got brand name quality SSR's. No problems since.

mislabeled and underpowered / mis-powered electronic devices are nothing to mess around with as it can easily cause damage, burns, fire, death. etc...

 

[PeteNMA]

Exactly. It's not like quality SSRs are expensive and the fake ones are certainly dangerous in certain situations.

 

[alphaomega]

So the problem i have with your opinion on this... If someone goes in and buys a 25amp fotek SSR for a 22amp project, well within limits and specs. however, the SSR is only rated for 12amp. You have an overheating and fire problem...

I didn't know anything about faulty SSR's with foteks until i smelled burning plastic on my 3rd or 4th brew and opened my case to find one of my SSR's melted. The same thing is likely to happen again with the failure rate of these... this is why i didn't cheap out this last time and got brand name quality SSR's. No problems since.

mislabeled and underpowered / mis-powered electronic devices are nothing to mess around with as it can easily cause damage, burns, fire, death. etc...

Sure. But even if going with genuine SSR, I'd go for a 40A one, if I was planning on putting 22 amps through it.
You just can't trust the specs on eBay from chinese retailers. That goes for pretty much anything on there. So, yeah if you need your stuff to be up to snuff, don't go trawling on eBay.
That does not change the fact, that even if not up to spec, the fotek knockoffs are still good value for money and reasonably well designed.

 

[PeteNMA]

If they are only capable of 50% of the labelled load how are they well designed?

 

[Rivenin]

If they are only capable of 50% of the labelled load how are they well designed?

exactly... they're not up to spec if they're mislabled. if it's s 25a part, label it as such... i'ts not safe. Also, whos to say they're not putting 10a parts in the 40amp ones and so on and so forth.

most people aren't going to be like "I should double the amp rating" they're going to get what works. and in a lot of cases will be the wrong size with this issue.

problem is, i had 40amp fotek SSR's, all 3 of them melted.
i was running 1 120v 2000w element through one and another one i was running a 4500w 240v element through them... each of that is under the 25a load that the internals would have been rated for

It's a safety concern is what we are getting at.

 

[Rockn_M]

One of the things that I learned building my Electric Brewery is you get what you paid for. This is also a good lesson in life.

I bought the cheaper ones from Ebay or Amazon (can't remember) and both 40amp SSR's failed within 3 brews. I upgraded to the ones from Auber and haven't had an issue since and it's been a few years now. I also went ahead and order a few extras to have on standby so if they eventual fail I have backups without having to wait.

 

[augiedoggy]

Sure. But even if going with genuine SSR, I'd go for a 40A one, if I was planning on putting 22 amps through it.
You just can't trust the specs on eBay from chinese retailers. That goes for pretty much anything on there. So, yeah if you need your stuff to be up to snuff, don't go trawling on eBay.
That does not change the fact, that even if not up to spec, the fotek knockoffs are still good value for money and reasonably well designed.

I dont really agree with the ebay comments... Theres nothing wrong with ebay. You just have to know what your buying... I have over 1000 purchases there and I can only think of 2 bad experiences. The fotek knockoffs are available from multiple sellers on amazon and Very likely from at least from one vendor/sponsor here as well just with another brand name on the sticker (The vendor never really answered when I asked about it)..

I think most will agree a 12 amp max rated switch sold for and used for 25a loads is a bad and dangerous design. But if someone was using it for 12amps or less than yeah it wouldnt be bad... I see what your saying I think which is that they were designed ok for a 12a ssr... but that doesnt apply if they are being sold for and used in much higher 25a installations.
Thats kinda like using a bike wheel on a car.... While they may be a great design for a light bike, They could be disastrous on a car.

 

[alphaomega]

@auggiedoggy : Yeah, that is exactly what I'm saying. I agree that it is bad that they are mislabled, but that is just the way it works unfortunately.
I wasn't trying to knock eBay. I purchase there almost daily myself also. Mostly cheap electronics fron china. And I agree, you just have to know what you are buying and what to expect.

 

[guindilla]

Someone mentioned before that ""Mager" makes them and rebrands them for auber... They also appear to sell them under other name brands like "Berme" as well.".

Have there been counterfeit problems with Mager as well? Or is this a problem limited to Fotek?

I'm considering buying the other brand in either eBay or Aliexpress, but would hate to have problems with those as well.

Thanks.

 

[augiedoggy]

Someone mentioned before that ""Mager" makes them and rebrands them for auber... They also appear to sell them under other name brands like "Berme" as well.".

Have there been counterfeit problems with Mager as well? Or is this a problem limited to Fotek?

I'm considering buying the other brand in either eBay or Aliexpress, but would hate to have problems with those as well.

Thanks.

I have never heard of a complaint of that... personally I only know of the big white generic ones with the same case as the foteks which are being sold as such.

 

[MrShake]

There ARE foteks out there that are not knockoffs, and they are a great value for the money. You just need a seller who will vouch for and has customers who have had no issues with their SSRS.

As I said once before, I have a source for them, and at a good price.

But I concur with those who say its a bad idea to buy a known knockoff and just underuse it. Your talking about enough power to kill you if something goes wrong.... use the right part!!

 

[alphaomega]

There ARE foteks out there that are not knockoffs, and they are a great value for the money. You just need a seller who will vouch for and has customers who have had no issues with their SSRS.

As I said once before, I have a source for them, and at a good price.

So, are you gonna let us in on your source? Otherwise, I think your point is moot.

But I concur with those who say its a bad idea to buy a known knockoff and just underuse it. Your talking about enough power to kill you if something goes wrong.... use the right part!!

Enough current to kill you is a couple of dozen milliamps when it comes to mains. So, the powerdraw is pretty much irrelevant.
Can you elaborate on why that is a bad idea? If the overall design is pretty sound, why would using say a knockoff with a 12A triac and putting say 8A through it, be worse than say putting 16A through a 25A genuine SSR?
I do agree that you should use the right part, but the right part depends on the application. Say for example that you want to build a christmas light project. For this you want x SSR's and each need not handle that much current. Buying knockoffs in bulk can save a lot of money.
If you need just one, and you're going to put a lot of amps through it, then going for the knockoffs is a bad idea.

 

[MrShake]

So, are you gonna let us in on your source? Otherwise, I think your point is moot.

The will be available on BrewTroller.com this evening. I haven't posted them yet, have sold a number to local guys though who have all used them and had no issues.

Enough current to kill you is a couple of dozen milliamps when it comes to mains. So, the powerdraw is pretty much irrelevant.
Can you elaborate on why that is a bad idea? If the overall design is pretty sound, why would using say a knockoff with a 12A triac and putting say 8A through it, be worse than say putting 16A through a 25A genuine SSR?
I do agree that you should use the right part, but the right part depends on the application. Say for example that you want to build a christmas light project. For this you want x SSR's and each need not handle that much current. Buying knockoffs in bulk can save a lot of money.
If you need just one, and you're going to put a lot of amps through it, then going for the knockoffs is a bad idea.

Its a matter of trust. If its a knockoff, how do you know WHAT you have? Can you guarentee that the triac inside is big enough? Do you know at what point you need to move to a bigger heat sink or active cooling as you get closer to the upper limit of the knockoff. Do you know if they skimped elserwhere? Perhaps terminal gauge or internal shunts or wiring? Is it properly isolated? ETc ETc ETC... your using a known knockoff to save money (when you don't need to) and hoping the only thing wrong is the triac

 

[guindilla]

Thanks.

Good to know about the Mager.

I understand brewtroller.com is a U.S.-oriented site. Do you have by any chance shipping-to-Europe friendly rates? Otherwise, do you know of any similar reliable source this side of the pond?

Cheers!

 

[alphaomega]

The will be available on BrewTroller.com this evening. I haven't posted them yet, have sold a number to local guys though who have all used them and had no issues.

Yeah... Sorry, but that is just BS. The fotek's are cheap, because you buy them without middle men directly from china with very cheap shipping.
Can I buy them from brewtroller (you) for $5 including shipping to sweden?
Refusing to share your source, just 1) renders your argument invalid, as we have no way to verify your claim and 2) shows your character and intention.

Its a matter of trust. If its a knockoff, how do you know WHAT you have? Can you guarentee that the triac inside is big enough? Do you know at what point you need to move to a bigger heat sink or active cooling as you get closer to the upper limit of the knockoff. Do you know if they skimped elserwhere? Perhaps terminal gauge or internal shunts or wiring? Is it properly isolated? ETc ETc ETC... your using a known knockoff to save money (when you don't need to) and hoping the only thing wrong is the triac

What do you mean don't need to? Show me where I can get a better SSR for the price. That is around 5 bucks including shipping.
I agree it is about trust. And you are just another retailer as well. How can I trust you, to never have knockoffs seep into your supply? It has happened to people with a pretty strict control of their supply chain before.
What I'm saying is, that if I want to buy an SSR I can trust (and I do), then I get one from a reputable retailer.

 

[PeteNMA]

For a potential saving of two bucks I'll just buy the magers in the first place.