Forum Newbie Looking to Simplify

[OffBeat]

Well I would first like to start this post off by saying that I'm excited to be part of this very informative community. This is my first post here on the forum and hopefully this all won't end up being a big mess.

I've been brewing for a few years now and due to lack of space, from the newest addition of my daughter to the family in December, I've been doing all grain batches 2 gallons at a time. The problem I'm running into is that my beer is becoming somewhat "muddled" in flavor to me. I did what I believe the majority of home brewer's do and jumped in a little too far and didn't learn the contributions of the base ingredients before combining them with 10 others.

My main reason for posting here is that I want to simplify my process a little bit and really brew one style until I have it where I want it. I've been on a big saison kick lately and feel that is the style I want to start with.

I guess my next question would be, where does everyone go from here in their recipe formulation for a saison?

 

[supermutantbrewmaster]

2 row. 45%
malted wheat 40%
munich 10%

Liberty hops

Danstar belle saison

That's mah base and I'm sticking to it. I add flaked wheat sometimes for head retention and body. I also like added fruit extracts and citrus peels to add various flavors to it.

I brew 2.5 gallon batches and can easily fit all my grain in a bag for BIAB.

 

[OffBeat]

Thank you for the thoughts! I read a BYO article sometime back that said to really let the yeast be the star in this style but I've had a few great saisons with additions of ginger so I believe that is where I'll ultimately go with it.

 

[NathPowe]

If I were really looking to simplify and learn the ropes of brewing a style like Saison, I'd start with a SMaSH recipe.

100% Base Malt of your choice (Pilsner is the most likely culprit in this case)
Hop of your choice
Yeast of your choice

Spend some time drinking the beer and taking some notes. With such a simple recipe, it will be easier to identify what each ingredient is bringing to the table. Then, armed with that knowledge, develop your next recipe but only change/add ONE thing. Hop selection, ferm. temp, yeast, mash temp, or whatever you feel like. That will allow you to see what that specific change/addition brought to the table in relation to the previous batch. Repeat as often as you see fit, with different changes/variables.

I should say I'm no expert on brewing certain styles - this is just how I would approach it.

Cheers man.

 

[Ski12568]

You can study the recipes over at BeerSmith.com to get an idea of what people use.

 

[OffBeat]

NathPowe, it's actually funny you say about SMASH brewing. I just started reading about it in a new book I got called "Experimental Homebrewing" that and a concept they call "Brewing on the Ones" where they use one base malt, one specialty malt, one hope, one yeast, and one special addition. I'm definitely going to look into the idea. My question about that is how much can one base malt really do in flavor contribution? I guess I'll find out.

Ski12568 thanks for the tip, I'll definitely go over there and check that out.

 

[beergolf]

Saisons are a pretty loose style.

I usually go for mostly pils, some wheat, sometimes some sugar to really dry it out. Sometimes a little Munich is also a good option. Hop with noble hops for a more traditional saison. I like Strisslespalt, saaz or EKG. Shoot for a BU:GU ratio of around .487 or so. Some of the more fruity American hops can work well also for a less traditional saison, but very good.

Then try different yeasts. Belle Saison is very easy to use. 3711 is another pretty easy one to use. I think that 3724 gives the best flavor, but requires good temp control to work .

Saisons are one of my favorite brews and I brew them often. Once you do a few you will learn to appreciate the flavors thatbthe different yeasts give. Once you have done several then the option of adding brett to the equation makes some really interesting brews. I have three going right now with different brett additions.

 

[OffBeat]

Beergolf, have you ever used brettanomyces trois? I was reading tasting notes on it the other and it sounds pretty neat.

 

[beergolf]

Beergolf, have you ever used brettanomyces trois? I was reading tasting notes on it the other and it sounds pretty neat.

Yes I have. It did not do a lot for me. It is just OK.

There are a lot of ways to add brett to your brews. I have used Wyeast brett offerings. A combo of both is good.

I also use a lot of bottle dregs. Orval has very viable brett. Just pour a bottle of Orval leaving some in the bottle and pour the dregs into you fermenter. Usually a couple of bottles and you get great resaults.

Here is a list of brews that have brett in them. You get to drink a brew and then use the dregs to brett up your brew.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html

Just spray the cap with Starsan and open it. I then flame the lip and pour out most of the bottle into a glass. Then just pout the dregs into you fermenter..

Some variety by using different brews makes it interesting.

 

[OffBeat]

I've actually done a decent amount of reading through the mad fermentationist's blog. He is a great source of information as well.

It actually makes me rethink my original theory on brett trois hearing that it didn't turn out well at all for you. Would you happen to remember the temperature you fermented it at and was it a 100% brett brew?

I like the bottle dreg idea, thanks for the info on that. I've been tossing around the idea of trying a brew using wild yeast captured from a kit by bootleg biology but I want to wait until spring time for that I think as there is a local orchard near my location that would allow me to set a jar out and capture yeast from there. I think doing it when the fruit is blossoming could bring some interesting bugs into the mix. This is all a little down the road though.

 

[NathPowe]

My question about that is how much can one base malt really do in flavor contribution?

You'd be surprised man. Especially when using yeasts with a lot of character, 100% base malt can make some really nice beers. I really would recommend trying it... if you can resist the urge to throw other things in on a batch or two. In general though, I try to approach my recipes with a 'less is more' mindset, particularly when it comes to grain bills, so I may be biased.

I would also say that, although I've read a number of comments about it being boring and/or one-dimensional, I think Wyeast 3711 makes a really nice beer. I'm not a huge saison drinker so take it with a grain of salt, but I've done two beers with that yeast and really enjoyed them both. I bet 100% Pilsner, a few additions of Saaz, and 3711 would be tasty.

Anyway - cheers man and good luck with the brew.

 

[OffBeat]

I was able to stop in at a LHBS and get myself some pilsner malt, an ounce of Saaz, and Belle saison yeast. Hopefully I'll be brewing on Sunday and have more updates to come from there. Thanks all who have given advice, I'll try to update as I go here.

 

[BGBC]

I've brewed a few saisons all with pretty simple grain bills. My favorite has been 80% pils / 10% flaked wheat / 10% rye malt. Noble hops to 35 ibus.

I like the smash idea too. Have fun brewing!

 

[Phunhog]

Since you are brewing a "classic style" you are right to simplify. The first thing I would do is look for award winning NHC Saison recipes, then I would look for clones of world famous saisons. You should notice that most recipes are pretty close to each other. There is no reason to try and re-invent the wheel...or then case a beer.

 

[OffBeat]

Well I had all intentions on brewing this past Sunday but mother nature and her ice here in Central PA had other plans for me. A trip to the ER and a concussion later, I'm still stuck without anything delicious in the fermenter. I'm hoping to get to brew my first attempt at this saison next weekend. I'll be sure to keep this post updated as I progress through this style.