Food poisoning from infection?

[jgohean]

Saturday morning I bottled batch #2, a Pale Rye Ale, tasted my SG sample, it looked and tasted great - no signs of infection.

Saturday for lunch I had a jalapeno burger from Chili's

Saturday night I tried a bottle of batch #1, an American Amber Ale, which had only been conditioning for a week - I just had to try it. Again, no signs of infection and it tasted fine, besides being a little flat.

Sunday was food poisoning hell - I'll spare the details.

I'm trying to narrow the food poisoning source down between the three.

My question is - is food poisoning from homebrew infection common? I'm torn between throwing out both batches and giving it another try - although I'm really scared to do that because I just don't want to go through another couple of days like that again.



EDIT/UPDATE: One week later, I've tried both batch #1 and #2 again and have no signs of food poisoning. Looks like everyone who responded has been correct - thanks for the advice! Homebrew cannot give you food poisoning.

 

[flyangler18]

It was the gut grenade from Chili's, not the homebrew. Quit eating that crap.

 

[Revvy]

No pathogen can grow in beer....so rule it out...You can be alergic to it...you can have problems with not being able to handle the yeast...but you CAN'T get food poisoning or any other kind of illness from beer...

So sue Chili's...don't blame homebrew....

Last year when I was googling for info on pathogens in beer, I came across the microbiologist/homebrewer railing against a fellow brewer (it was on one of those "color coded" brewboards where they are a little less friendly than we are.) I just cut and pasted it and stuck it in a file...here it is.

Can you get a PATHOGEN from beer. No. NO *NO* Did I make that clear? You have a ZERO chance of pathogens in beer, wine, distilled beverages. PERIOD!

Pathogens are described as organisms that are harmful and potentially life threatening to humans. These are some 1400+ known species overall encompasing viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and helminths. Of that group, we are only interested in those that can be foodborne. Quite simply, if it can't survive in food, it isn't in beer. That knocks out all but bacteria and fungi. Viruses need very specific circumstances to be passed around... like on the lip of a glass or bottle, not the beer in it. **Ahhh...CHOOO!**

Pathogens as a rule are very fastidious beasts. Meaning that they want very specific temperatures, acidity, nutrients and other conditions to thrive.

Bacteria that *could* live in wort, cannot survive even a little bit of fermentation. There are several reasons for this. One is in the 'magic' of hops. It is the isomerized alpha acids that provide a preservative effect to the beer, which happens to inhibit pathogens! Good deal for fresh wort!

Another reason is the drop in pH from fermentation. Next, yeast emit their own enzymes and byproducts, all in an effort to make the environment hostile to other creatures. The major one is alcohol, of course, but their enzymes will break down less vigorous organisms and they become sources of trace nutrition. Now the latter is very minor compared to the effect of alcohol, but it exists! Most of the time these enzymes work on the wort, not organisms until late in the process. Good deal for beer! ...uh, wine too.

Oh, Botulism specifically... did you know that this is an anaerobic pathogen? It's toxin is one of the few that is broken down by boiling. Did you know tht it is strongly inhibited by isomerized alpha acids, even in water? Since fresh wort has a healthy amount of oxygen in it, the beastie cannot even get started, then once the O2 is used up, it doesn't have a chance against the hops or the yeast.

All that is left are a handful of acid producing bacteria that'll ruin a batch of beer. Overall, there are less than 200 organisms that can survive in beer and lend flavor effects. None of these for very long, or very often. Lambic being the sole exception, and if pathogens *could* survive, that'd be the style where you find 'em.

 

[jmulligan]

It was the gut grenade from Chili's, not the homebrew.

+1

I don't think I've heard of anyone having anything more severe than an apocalypse of flatulence from homebrew. If the beer seems fine, it probably is - don't throw it out!

 

[Saccharomyces]

+1. You are safe with the beer. And it probably isn't infected anyway.

You are local so LMK if you want to meet up somewhere and trade a few homebrews.

 

[sterling214]

You can't get food poisoning from homebrew. From what I hear, you can get a mild case of diarrhea from large quantities of live active yeast if you drink real young beer.

 

[TeleTwanger]

If it's diarrhea it's probably E. Coli from raw meat or food handled with poopy hands. But E. Coli usually takes 24hrs.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Reminds me of St Arnold. Saved maybe thousands by having them drink the beer because the water was contaminated.

 

[jgohean]

Quit eating that crap.

Thanks for the tip

No pathogin can grow in beer....so rule it out...

Good to know, thanks.

don't throw it out!

I won't!

You are local so LMK if you want to meet up somewhere and trade a few homebrews.

Want to try my potentially food poison causing batch for me? /sarcasm

I'll let you know if and when I get some trade worthy batches - not sure I'm there yet.

You can't get food poisoning from homebrew.

Well said.

If it's diarrhea it's probably E. Coli

It was actually mostly throwing up - still definitely food poisoning though. I'm thinking maybe a small case of salmonella from the raw jalapenos.

Reminds me of St Arnold. Saved thousands by having them drink the beer because the water was contaminated.

Nice reference.

 

[rabidgerbil]

+1 on Chilis
Wife and I just ate there a few weeks ago, and she was in BAD shape from that...

 

[Grinder12000]

I would call the Austin, TX board of health ASAP - I bet others are in your poopy boat.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Want to try my potentially food poison causing batch for me? /sarcasm

Sure, why not.

Sharing your brew is a good way to get feedback on your process. I have learned a lot from sharing my brews with the Austin Zealots.

 

[flyangler18]

It was actually mostly throwing up - still definitely food poisoning though. I'm thinking maybe a small case of salmonella from the raw jalapenos.

I'm blaming the overseasoned, mediocre tasting food of the chain restaurants for your intestinal fireworks. That stuff never agrees with me, so I avoid those places like the plague.

If you are legitimately concerned about the possibility of food poisoning, contact the GM of the Chili's and bring it to their attention- then contact the Health Department.

 

[TeleTwanger]

"I want my baby back, baby back, baby back, ***BARF*** ribs

 

[Rumblebelly]

It could have been something other than Chili's. Nailing down the source of food poisoning is almost impossible unless other people were infected. It could have been because you didn't wash your filthy hands before eating, your kitchen counter was covered with bacteria while you made that sandwich with the bad turkey earlier that day, or your dog pooped in your mouth while you slept the night before. It could have been something that entered your mouth even days before. Perhaps even a viral infection...



All the more reason to drink plenty of high alcohol beer whenever you put something in your mouth.

 

[fat x nub]

I think the answer is obviouse....jalepno burger from Chili's...or beer

 

[BigKahuna]

I can't believe EvilTOJ hasn't chimed in here....he has this thing he says about beer and pathogens and getting sick from beer:

 

[alex_wilkosz]

have u seen my signature?

 

[jgohean]

update: I'm trusting everyone who's responded that there's no way beer gave me food poisoning and will have another one tonight. I'm nervous. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[scinerd3000]

seeing as how i work at chilis id say it was our food. Do you have any idea how fatty and unhealthy those burgers are. You probably digested 2000 calories with that one meal. As far as i knew no pathogetnic (harmful) bacteria grew in fermented beer over 5% (not including mold)

 

[lapaglia]

From another brew board.

1) Authors: Semanchek JJ. Golden DA.
Title: SURVIVAL OF ESCHERICHIA COLI O157-H7 DURING FERMENTATION OF APPLE CIDER
Source: Journal of Food Protection. 59(12):1256-1259, 1996 Dec.
Abstract: Survival of Escherichia coli O157:H7 in fermenting and nonfermenting fresh apple cider was determined. Populations of E. coli O157:H7 were reduced from 6.4 log CFU/ml to undetectable levels (detection limit of 0.5 log CFU/ml) in fermenting cider after 3 days at 20 degrees C and from 6.5 log CFU/ml to 2.9 log CFU/ml after 10 days at 20 degrees C in nonfermenting cider. After 1 day of incubation, recovery of E. coli O157:H7 from fermenting and nonfermenting cider was statistically (P < 0.01) lower on sorbitol MacConkey agar than on tryptone soya agar supplemented with
cycloheximide. These results suggest that substantial portions of the surviving E. coli O157:H7 populations were sublethally injured by cider components (i.e., acid and ethanol). The pH of fermenting cider was not significantly different (P > 0.05) from that of nonfermenting cider throughout the 10-day test period. Final ethanol concentrations in fermenting cider reached 6.01% (vol/vol) after 10 days at 20 degrees C. Inactivation of E. coli O157:H7 in fermenting cider is attributed to the combined effects of pH and ethanol. Results of this study indicate that E. coli O157:H7 is capable of survival in fresh apple cider at 20 degrees C, while alcoholic fermentation of fresh cider is an effective means of destroying this pathogen.

While its cider not beer the effect is the same. Its safer than the unfermented stuff.

 

[menschmaschine]

Coming in a little late on this thread, but coming from a former health inspector, as soon as you said "Chili's", a red flag went up. Trust me, it wasn't the beer.

 

[TeleTwanger]

seeing as how i work at chilis id say it was our food.

So, it was YOU!

 

[scinerd3000]

So, it was YOU!

sure sure. Our store is clean as far as i know. I mean i dont **** it peoples food if thats what your implying. It cant be helped if everything on our menu is deep fried goodness.

 

[snowbum007]

Being a health inspector, it's not the beer but don't be so fast to blame Chili's. It could be them but we get exposed to a lot of stuff throughout the day. The only way to be positive it was food poisioning is to culture your vomit and the food. I'd recommend reporting your illness to your environmental health department and let them run with it. It could be very usefull to them. The CDC reports that only about 10% of FBIs ever get reported.

 

[scinerd3000]

Being a health inspector, it's not the beer but don't be so fast to blame Chili's. It could be them but we get exposed to a lot of stuff throughout the day. The only way to be positive it was food poisioning is to culture your vomit and the food. I'd recommend reporting your illness to your environmental health department and let them run with it. It could be very usefull to them. The CDC reports that only about 10% of FBIs ever get reported.

...im home free now! It wasnt me

 

[EvilTOJ]

Sorry I'm late, I didn't know someone was asking about pathogens again. BK, were you referring to when I say this;

I say smell it. If it smells like honey I'd keep it. If it smells like a piece of moldy bread that's been found in the fatrolls of a dead obese person, I'd probably throw it out.

Probably.

This?

The worst that can happen is you yarf it up from swigging right out of the bottle because you found it's turned to cardboard with a dash of vinegar. But no, it won't kill you, or make you sick, it'll just leave a bad taste in your mouth. Just like BK said,

NO KNOWN PATHOGENS CAN SURVIVE IN FERMENTED PRODUCTS

Thank you.

Or this?

That's perfectly normal for clearing beer. Don't dump it. Unless it tastes like Satan's anus when you rack it for bottling, you will be thoroughly mocked for dumping perfectly good beer.

 

[jgohean]

Update: I've tried both batch #1 and #2 and have no signs of food poisoning. Looks like everyone who responded has been correct - thanks for the advice which gave me the courage to try both batches again.