Foaming in lines.... im stumped

[butterpants]

Greetings! Let me describe my setup, then issues first....

2 ball lock cornies in fridge
38 degrees F
1 5lb CO2 tank (in fridge)
Dual body Taprite regulator
12psi beer #1 (saison)
10psi beer #2 (brown ale)
12' 3/16(fixed)" dia beer line
Perlick stainless faucets/ss shanks

Faucets are clean. No kinks in line. Regulators appear to be functioning properly.

Beer #2 is perfect
Beer #1 is a mess.

#1 pours pure foam. Big time foam in the lines, back to keg. Obviously the issue is prior to that in the chain of things, but I'm not sure on how to troubleshoot properly.

Suggestions?

 

[milldoggy]

Your sure the beer is not over carbed

 

[raouliii]

3/16"ID line?

How did you carbonate each keg?

A leak in the o-ring on the liquid dip tube can allow CO2 to escape from the headspace.

 

[billl]

3/8? At 12 ft, that would be a psi drop of about 2.4lbs. Assuming you are going up to a tap from the keg, you probably are dropping another 1-2 or so from that for a total drop of 3.4-4.4. From 10psi, that leave you with pretty close to an "ideal" 5lbs at the tap. From 12psi, you are at 7.6+.

You might want to pick up some 3/16 line.

Alternatively, you can drop a couple mixing nozzles into the dip tube. The 1/4" ones fit perfect and provide enough resistance to help balance the higher carbed styles without switching lines.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#mixing-nozzles/=nmzeqf

 

[JuanMoore]

I'm guessing the 3/8" is either a typo or the OD of the line. If that's the case, then as raoulii said, a likely cause is a bad liquid side diptube o-ring. Another possible cause is that the beer is carbed to a level that corresponds to a pressure higher than 12psi. How did you carb it? Is it every beer, or does the second beer pour better if you pour two consecutive beers? Could also be a restriction from trub/hop debris stuck in the poppet or between the end of the diptube and bottom of the keg.

 

[hbrookie]

The bar I worked at in college served everything at 12 psi so that the keg never went flat (unless it was something that really sucked bad an no one ever drank it). They served from 3/8, but they had over 50' on each line. Each keg had a coil of line that hung on the wall next to it. It's sole purpose was to beat the foam down. They served ciders at 20lbs pressure from 35' of 3/16 line. This was so that they kept pressure up on the kegs for carb purposes all the time. These are "ish" numbers. I worked there about 18 years ago and I mainly servered the beer, I didn't set the keg system up. But the principle holds. Higher pressure requires much longer lines.

 

[winvarin]

Check your dip tube o ring. I had an almost identical situation a couple of weeks ago. Foam in the lines and I was having to pour 3 or 4 rounds of foam to get a full glass of beer.

It turns out that my liquid o-ring was either damaged or defective. It was flattened down on one side and not sealing properly. I still don't know why I didn't lose all my gas.

But I replaced it and it started working properly.

 

[passedpawn]

Swap gas IN and beer OUT lines, Beer 1 and 2. If problem persists, beer #1 is overcarbed. If the problem moves to #2, then start subbing parts into the lines until problem goes away.

If Beer #1 is overcarbed, either you did it through poor carbing procedure (we've all rushed a beer with 30psi) or you kegged early or there's an infection that's continuing to carb the beer.

 

[passedpawn]

Check your dip tube o ring. I had an almost identical situation a couple of weeks ago. Foam in the lines and I was having to pour 3 or 4 rounds of foam to get a full glass of beer.

It turns out that my liquid o-ring was either damaged or defective. It was flattened down on one side and not sealing properly. I still don't know why I didn't lose all my gas.

But I replaced it and it started working properly.

... or that. I've lost either 1) all of my gas, or 2) all of my beer to rebellious orings. Numerous times.

 

[Shakybones]

Swap gas IN and beer OUT lines, Beer 1 and 2. If problem persists, beer #1 is overcarbed. If the problem moves to #2, then start subbing parts into the lines until problem goes away.

If Beer #1 is overcarbed, either you did it through poor carbing procedure (we've all rushed a beer with 30psi) or you kegged early or there's an infection that's continuing to carb the beer.

Ahh...logic and troubleshooting advice, which is what OP asked for. How refreshing!

 

[butterpants]

Swap gas IN and beer OUT lines, Beer 1 and 2. If problem persists, beer #1 is overcarbed. If the problem moves to #2, then start subbing parts into the lines until problem goes away.

If Beer #1 is overcarbed, either you did it through poor carbing procedure (we've all rushed a beer with 30psi) or you kegged early or there's an infection that's continuing to carb the beer.

Holy ****, science. Why didn't I think of that. Will try tomorrow. After the switch, any time allotted for pressure equilibrium to get established or just dispense?

Sorry guys the lines are 3/16 not 3/8...my bad.

Kegs were both slow carbed with steady pressure (10/12 psi) over 2 weeks. I did have an overcarb issue with the sucker in question but degassing/repeated bleeding off pressure seemed to have solved it. (basically I tried to cram one too many vols inside.... think i initially carbed at 18psi 7000' )

Kegs were purchased from KegConnection.com and O rings replaced /lubed and keg cleaned with PBW then sanatized with Star San. Infection is not even conceivable.... i'm way too anal not to mention worked in a mycology lab for years. Killed a bug or two in my day.

I have some work to do. Thanks for the replies fellas, I'll be back

 

[winvarin]

Kegs were purchased from KegConnection.com and O rings replaced /lubed

It's also worth noting that the O ring that caused my situation was brand new as well. Sometimes you just get a dud.

 

[butterpants]

haven't worked on it yet but just wondering how exactly a bad dip or or post O ring causes such disastrous results? I get the whole keeping things out functionality... but why the crazy bubbles if it fails to keep all the gas in?

 

[winvarin]

Like I said in my original post, I have no idea why i didn't lose my CO2. The only explanations that even seem conceivable to me are :
1. The warped o ring was situated so that positive pressure inside the keg kept it seals, but the changed in internal pressure caused it to draw air (I want to say the effect I am thinking of is called Venturi)

Or

2. Maybe the problem was less with the o ring an more with how well the stem and poppet were seated. And maybe then the process of removing the post, changing out the o ring and then re seating the post and poppet corrected the issue.

 

[winvarin]

Add to that, I was seeing large bubbles in the line too. And the tank was recently filled. So it's possible that I had a slow leak and just happened to catch it soon enough that it didn't drain my tank

 

[raouliii]

haven't worked on it yet but just wondering how exactly a bad dip or or post O ring causes such disastrous results? I get the whole keeping things out functionality... but why the crazy bubbles if it fails to keep all the gas in?

The liquid post diptube o-ring seals in two different ways. It's outer circumference seals agains the inside of the liquid post and its top and bottom surface seals the diptube to the keg fitting. A leak can result in CO2 or beer leaking from the post to the atmosphere, rapidly emptying your CO2 bottle or keg. It can also leak CO2 into the beer being served which will create foam in the beer as it is being drawn.

 

[winvarin]

The liquid post diptube o-ring seals in two different ways. It's outer circumference seals agains the inside of the liquid post and its top and bottom surface seals the diptube to the keg fitting. A leak can result in CO2 leaking from the post to the atmosphere, rapidly emptying your CO2 bottle. It can also leak CO2 into the beer being served which will create foam in the beer as it is being drawn.

This makes a lot more sense with what I was seeing. The defect in my ring was on the outside edge. So I'm taking what you say above to mean that I was getting a good seal on the dip tube. But I was drawing co2 in from the headspace because I didn't have a proper seal with the post?

 

[JuanMoore]

This makes a lot more sense with what I was seeing. The defect in my ring was on the outside edge. So I'm taking what you say above to mean that I was getting a good seal on the dip tube. But I was drawing co2 in from the headspace because I didn't have a proper seal with the post?

You were getting a good seal with the keg post, keeping the beer from exiting into the atmosphere, but a bad seal between the dip tube and post fitting, which allowed gas into the post fitting, where it mixed with the beer.

 

[butterpants]

great explanation, thanks!

 

[butterpants]

Well I replaced the Orings and decarbed it at the same time. Issue(s) solved. Not sure what exactly was the problem but you guys fixed it for me! Thanks a bunch

 

[butterpants]

Well I replaced the Orings and decarbed it at the same time. Issue(s) solved. Not sure what exactly was the problem but you guys fixed it for me! Thanks a bunch