Fly vs. Batch sparging
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JonK331
Well-Known Member
Why on earth would I throw beer out of a window? Of course there is more drinking of it.
Defenstration: the throwing of a person or thing out of a window
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defenestration
And yes, I did have to look that one up.
Defenstration: the throwing of a person or thing out of a window
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defenestration
And yes, I did have to look that one up.
come on guys, the definition is in my sig!
i did try a defenestrating fly sparge, letting the mash run out of a second story window into the kettle below, but i found that i was creating far too much hot side aeration
Germelli1
Well-Known Member
Even if you find any increase in efficiency and don't stick with it as your sparge method, homebrewing is all about experimentation. I find experimentation fun...(damn camp counselors)
DrJerryrigger
Well-Known Member
Okay I'm getting lazy, so: Fly Sparging = "FS" and Batch Sparging = "BS " (ha ha ha, okay, I'm over it)
I do this with BS too, I keep going until I'm get kicked out of the kitchen. Just remember you can boil a 1.001 down to what ever you want, and it takes less room to store at 1.150 or so. Also; keep (or make it have) a low PH to reduce chance of infection.
With BS the "cuts" are very very clear, even if you want to change them you can't. This makes it good for the indecisive, I would be tempted to separate every 100ml that came out of a FS.
I would like to FS, but I'm BSing (but it's more of a BS BS (the first BS means the feces of a male ruminant animal(how grammatically wrong is this?(but it works in math)very, I think)you know; bull poo)because I need better equipment) now.
If any one can follow that on a first read; I give you a gold star!
I do this with BS too, I keep going until I'm get kicked out of the kitchen. Just remember you can boil a 1.001 down to what ever you want, and it takes less room to store at 1.150 or so. Also; keep (or make it have) a low PH to reduce chance of infection.
With BS the "cuts" are very very clear, even if you want to change them you can't. This makes it good for the indecisive, I would be tempted to separate every 100ml that came out of a FS.
I would like to FS, but I'm BSing (but it's more of a BS BS (the first BS means the feces of a male ruminant animal(how grammatically wrong is this?(but it works in math)very, I think)you know; bull poo)because I need better equipment) now.
If any one can follow that on a first read; I give you a gold star!
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
Germelli1
Well-Known Member
I followed it perfectly!
(but I assume I've had almost as many as you tonight [unless you havn't had any, then this is just awkward] (because I would be implying that your diction [or is it syntax...or just sentance structure in general] is that of a drunken fool, either way, no offense meant!)
(but I assume I've had almost as many as you tonight [unless you havn't had any, then this is just awkward] (because I would be implying that your diction [or is it syntax...or just sentance structure in general] is that of a drunken fool, either way, no offense meant!)
Alright, I don't know what to say about DrJerryRiggers post.....so, I'll skip it it :cross:
Back to this "hybrid" method: Is the increase in eff. due to the fact that you are using the sparge water to "push" the sugary water (wort) out of the MLT?
Since, with a BS you add it all at once, mix it, and drain it; it is all the same density (more or less). BUT with the Hybrid sparge you are getting a few extra eff. points b/c you are "pushing out" a bit more sugar (refer to the image in BierMuncher's original post about this method, which is Stickied on the All Grain Forum).
But in the end you are still using the same amount of sparge water for the hybrid method as you are for the BS method, right? (opposed to FS where you have leftover sparge water)
Back to this "hybrid" method: Is the increase in eff. due to the fact that you are using the sparge water to "push" the sugary water (wort) out of the MLT?
Since, with a BS you add it all at once, mix it, and drain it; it is all the same density (more or less). BUT with the Hybrid sparge you are getting a few extra eff. points b/c you are "pushing out" a bit more sugar (refer to the image in BierMuncher's original post about this method, which is Stickied on the All Grain Forum).
But in the end you are still using the same amount of sparge water for the hybrid method as you are for the BS method, right? (opposed to FS where you have leftover sparge water)
you are getting more of the sugars out, yes. if you sparge slow enough you can actually see the layer of water on top of the wort as its being slowly pushed through the grain, its pretty cool actually
i do end up with water left over simply becuase i like to have extra and i just have always kept an inch of so of water above the mash... you just need to make sure that you arent over sparging, which i havent yet. i generally split my mash and sparge water fairly equally and mash fairly thin, around 1.7 qt/lb.defenestrate: so you follow BierMuncher's method in his post? Did you read about WildWest's true hybrid approach? I was leaning towards that method just so I didn't oversparge the first time. The water volumes are the same as a true BS, but you add about 1/2 of your sparge water, vorlauf, then start collecting. Then you use the rest of your sparge water to FS for the rest of the sprage. But I assume you still drain the MLT completely as in BS.
Comprende? (I don't know spanish......)
Comprende? (I don't know spanish......)
johnodon
Well-Known Member
I am thinking of moving from batch to fly just to experiement. I really just want to see if my efficiencey moves in either direction.
I have a few questions...
TIA,
John
I have a few questions...
- I plan on using a sparge arm made from CPVC. I know that with batch sparging, it is very important to keep the mash at the target temp. That is why so many use quality coolers (if you can't afford otherwise) and keep the lid closed during the entire mash. My question is if this applies to fly sparging? I see pics of people fly'ing with the lid open and I alos see pics of people fly'ing with the lid closed (i.e arm mounted to the underside of the lid). Is there a preference?
- Can you fill up the HLT with more water than what is needed and just stop the sparge once you hit your target pre-boil volume? Is this what people typically do or is it more precise like batch sparging where water volumes need to calculated?
- What temp do you fly sparge at? I ask this due to my only experience is with batch sparging and mash-in and sparge temps are totally different. Is this the case with fly sparging also? I guess what I am asking is if you can just fill the HLT with all of the needed water and kepe it at a static temp through the entire process? Sorry if that is a noobish question. I just haven't found a good tutorial yet.
- I assume mashing is performed teh same way whether you batch or fly sparge. Basically mash with the required amount/temp of water, stir, close lid and let sit for an hour. After the hour, begin teh fly sparging. Correct?
- Reference #3...can sonmeone point me to a nice tutorial about fly sparging using the method I will use: converted cooler HLT and cooler MLT with CPVC sparge arm and manifold.
TIA,
John
funkswing- i have not read about that approach. i understand how that is a true hybrid, but i feel like you would have the same safety if you just used BS water calculations and 100% FS with that amount. i dont see the benefit of doing this true hybrid, but i'm sure it works just fine.
like i said before i've never over sparged (yet): in my experience i REALLY have to sparge a long time to have the runnings <1.015. i think a lot of people over complicate FS and are very worried about screwing it up. while i may not do the best or traditional method, i am very happy with my results and have had no negative effects.
john- i sparge with my lid open for a couple reasons-1) because i cant fully close my lid with my ghetto set up. 2) i like to just be able to look and see the level. sometimes i close the lid somewhat, but i dont really think it matters. the sparge water is around 175-180 degrees. i do not mash out. i simply fill the HLT cooler with hot water and sparge with it after recirculating the mash till its clear. you could have 100 gallons of water to sparge with, but you just stop collecting when your target OG or volume is hit, or if you begin to over-sparge. i would like to have a on demand hot water tank as my future HLT. the only temperature that i really am anal about is the mash; i've had fine results with no mash out.
DrJerryrigger
Well-Known Member
Have you stuck a thermometer into your grain bed, or in the exiting wort? I'm just wondering how temps work out in your FS system.
i have before, if i remember correctly it was about 160, maybe a touch over. my mash temp drops about 5-7 degrees when i recirculate it to set the bed.
here is my ultra simple/ghetto sparging method. ditched the tube, just drip right on the foil. 
The only way to make this setup simpler: Start the brew day off with some triple-hopped lite beer. Just hold it in until sparge time, unzip the fly, and start the sparge. Now that's some real "fly" sparging. (no pics, please)
defenestrate - I ghetto-ed up like you this weekend!
http://jonflash.myweb.uga.edu/images/hbt/flysparge.jpg
This was a "hybrid" fly sparge (and that's pumpkin in the mash).
I am a batch sparger and I did everything like I normally do, except for when it came time to do the batch sparge infusion. This time I divided my sparge water roughly in half. Added the first half as a normal batch sparge (added water, mixed, vorlaufed, collect wort). I put the other half in the cooler and began fly sparging after I started collecting the wort.
This was my first time, so I did quite have the in-flow/out-flow perfectly matched. The pic was taken half-way through the sparge. Since its a hybrid its impossible to keep a 1-2 inch pool on top of the grain, because you use the same amount of water as a normal batch sparge.
It was fun, and I got slightly better efficiency. BUT it is debatable with this recipe b/c I calculated the OG w/o the pumpkin. So the slight eff. boost was more than likely from the pumpkin.
I will try again with my next brew. It was simple and didn't take any longer (30 min to collect entire wort after 60 min mash). Not too shabby, but the setup is!!
http://jonflash.myweb.uga.edu/images/hbt/flysparge.jpg
This was a "hybrid" fly sparge (and that's pumpkin in the mash).
I am a batch sparger and I did everything like I normally do, except for when it came time to do the batch sparge infusion. This time I divided my sparge water roughly in half. Added the first half as a normal batch sparge (added water, mixed, vorlaufed, collect wort). I put the other half in the cooler and began fly sparging after I started collecting the wort.
This was my first time, so I did quite have the in-flow/out-flow perfectly matched. The pic was taken half-way through the sparge. Since its a hybrid its impossible to keep a 1-2 inch pool on top of the grain, because you use the same amount of water as a normal batch sparge.
It was fun, and I got slightly better efficiency. BUT it is debatable with this recipe b/c I calculated the OG w/o the pumpkin. So the slight eff. boost was more than likely from the pumpkin.
I will try again with my next brew. It was simple and didn't take any longer (30 min to collect entire wort after 60 min mash). Not too shabby, but the setup is!!
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