Flameout hop additions--worthless w/ rapid cooling?

[mongoose33]

Screwed up while brewing Friday. Had a friend over to "help," forgot to add hops at flameout as the recipe requires. I noticed as I began to pull the immersion chiller from the wort, then tossed in the hops (essentially a dry-hop charge). Temp of the wort was about 70.

I covered the kettle and proceeded to clean the IC, took maybe 5 minutes or so. I set up the fermenter, sanitized and attached the silicone tubing to the ball valve on the kettle, and racked the wort into the fermenter.

Everything at that point was normal--oxygenated the wort, pitched the yeast, set it in the ferm chamber. I started to clean the kettle and in the leftover trub in the bottom, there was a bunch of hop pellets. I opened another package of hops and added 1/2 ounce of hops directly to the fermenter as a dry hop.

**************

So, whatever value the hops may have had in the kettle, I'm sure it was little value.

But that bring to mind a question. I use a Jaded Hydra chiller; when the groundwater temps get lower, I can chill a 5-gallon batch from boiling to 70 in 4 minutes. I'm not kidding. Took 5.5 minutes on Friday. The thing is a beast.

But what about hops added at flameout? The temp goes from 212 degrees to 160 in a minute; in other words, the wort chills so fast, I'm wondering about the value of flameout hop additions. Is there even time for the goodness in the hops to come out? Should I change that schedule to add the hops at 5 minutes?

Normally I'd think there was enough time for the hops to give up flavor and aroma, but within 3 minutes I've dropped wort temp below 100, so there's not much time to do that.

So--does rapid chilling drastically alter the effect of flameout additions--especially if most of the hop trub ends up staying in the kettle?

 

[PADave]

Chill down to just below 180, let it sit for a while, or do a whirlpool, then finish chilling.

 

[mongoose33]

Chill down to just below 180, let it sit for a while, or do a whirlpool, then finish chilling.

Thanks.

Yeah, I knew that I could do that--it's an original Mongoose recipe, so I have no requirement to maintain any fidelity to the original. However, it's very good, and I don't want to go too far away from tried-and-true. This is a Blonde version of my Darth Lager, no chocolate malt or chocolate wheat. But the hop additions were the same, and I screwed that up.

I'm on a quest to shorten my brew day as much as possible, so anything that doesn't require me to wait extra time is desirable. I always wanted to get the wort to pitch temp as fast as possible so I don't have a fruit fly or some such trying to partake and infecting the batch.

I know 180 is still pasteurizing temp, but I'm wondering if I should just pitch those hops as a dry hop into chilled wort or what else might work as well.

I've got pretty good notes on this, so if magic strikes and it's exceptional, I think I could reproduce it.

 

[buckinin]

I recently took the Advanced Hopping class at the BYO boot camp. The instructor (Josh Weikert) recommended not adding flame out or whirlpool hops until the wort is below about 150 degrees F to maximum aroma from these additions. He said that most hop oils volatilize above this temp, so they aren’t retained in the beer as well if you add them at higher temp. I have not yet brewed another hop forward beer since so I have not yet tried this out.

It probably depends on the point of your additions, but if you’re going for aroma, he recommended adding flame out hops at lower temp and then letting it sit for 20 minutes or so before cooling completely.

 

[ddibbern5]

Not sure if you’ve seen this already but here’s a link to an experiment Brülosophy put together on the topic. Other links inside of post with additional hop addition tests.

http://brulosophy.com/2017/07/31/the-hop-stand-flameout-vs-120f-49c-exbeeriment-results/
Cheers

 

[Cevan65]

I recently took the Advanced Hopping class at the BYO boot camp. The instructor (Josh Weikert) recommended not adding flame out or whirlpool hops until the wort is below about 150 degrees F to maximum aroma from these additions. He said that most hop oils volatilize above this temp, so they aren’t retained in the beer as well if you add them at higher temp. I have not yet brewed another hop forward beer since so I have not yet tried this out.

It probably depends on the point of your additions, but if you’re going for aroma, he recommended adding flame out hops at lower temp and then letting it sit for 20 minutes or so before cooling completely.

Why not just dry hop then instead of throwing hops in below 150?

 

[STMF]

Why not just dry hop then instead of throwing hops in below 150?

Less introduction of o2 after fermentation could be one reason.

 

[buckinin]

Why not just dry hop then instead of throwing hops in below 150?

Good question. I don’t know the answer to that.

There was an experiment on this too. It might not matter if you hop stand or dry hop, but I think a lot of people do both.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/29/hop-stand-vs-dry-hop-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Davevjordon]

I recently took the Advanced Hopping class at the BYO boot camp. The instructor (Josh Weikert) recommended not adding flame out or whirlpool hops until the wort is below about 150 degrees F to maximum aroma from these additions. He said that most hop oils volatilize above this temp, so they aren’t retained in the beer as well if you add them at higher temp. I have not yet brewed another hop forward beer since so I have not yet tried this out.

It probably depends on the point of your additions, but if you’re going for aroma, he recommended adding flame out hops at lower temp and then letting it sit for 20 minutes or so before cooling completely.

Valuable advice. I’m going to try this with my next one. Because I came up with a recipe that I really like, and I already planned on duplicating it anyway. So I’ll alter when I add my flame out hops.