First timer questions

[danpshack]

Folks,
This is the first time I've tried making hard cider. I have a carboy that was clear after primary, then turned hazy two weeks into secondary. There are also small bubbles appearing in the neck of the carboy. I used fresh pressed cider from a local orchard. I used starsan with everything and vodka in the airlock. I don't believe contamination is a factor. I first added Potassium Metabisulfite and let it sit 12 hours, then added pectic enzyme and let it sit another 12 hours. I then pitched red star yeast with yeast nutrient. Primary went great and then I racked to secondary. The cider was very clear then all of a sudden went hazy. I have 4 other carboys in secondary and they are not experiencing the same issue. Could this be MLF that I've read about? Should I let it sit? I'd like it to be clear before bottling. I plan on bottling in another month and adding carbonation, final result a dry carbonated cider. Any help is much appreciated, thank you.

 

[danpshack]

Left is hazy carboy compared to right clear one.
Couple other things:
Cider from orchard was pasteurized
starting gravity: 1.050
ending gravity: 1.000
cider temp: 60 degrees

 

[danpshack]

Is the carboy on the left experiencing MLF?

 

[Maylar]

That's possible. What yeast did you use?

 

[bmd2k1]

That's possible. What yeast did you use?

Pic shows Cotes for one on left [emoji16]

 

[Maylar]

I don't see anything documented that says CdB is MLF compatible.

 

[danpshack]

I don't see anything documented that says CdB is MLF compatible.

I assume that means MLF is not a possibility with CdB?

 

[Maylar]

I assume that means MLF is not a possibility with CdB?

Normally MLF is initiated on purpose using malolactic bacteria. Whether CdB supports that or not I'm not sure. But MLF can happen on its own sometimes and certain yeasts (like 71B) are more accommodating to that than others. Usually the specs for a yeast will mention MLF if it's compatible, and I don't see any mention in the online descriptions.

 

[danpshack]

Thanks a ton for the help Maylar! Going forward...how do you think I should deal with this? Wait it out? Add anything to it?

 

[Blacksmith1]

out of curiosity, are you still getting bubbles in your airlock? I had one that clouded in secondary only to find out it was suspended CO2. a quick degassing and it cleared right up. Just an idea.

 

[danpshack]

There are bubbles that are rising inside the carboy and collecting in the neck. Airlock activity is minimal though, bubbling about once every couple minutes. A quick degassing? How do I do that?

 

[Blacksmith1]

siphon into a bucket letting it run down the side, stir it a bit to knock the rest of the CO2 (or at least most of it) out of suspension. If you haven't done a campden treatment you may want to during this step. then rack it back to the carboy. Keep in mind it may still be doing a bit of fermenting. if the gas comes back it's not finished.

 

[danpshack]

siphon into a bucket letting it run down the side, stir it a bit to knock the rest of the CO2 (or at least most of it) out of suspension. If you haven't done a campden treatment you may want to during this step. then rack it back to the carboy. Keep in mind it may still be doing a bit of fermenting. if the gas comes back it's not finished.

I have not added any k-meta since I first got the apple cider before primary fermentation. Should I be adding that to all other carboys now? I have three other besides this cloudy one sitting in secondary. What exactly will the k-meta do?

 

[Maylar]

I would just wait it out. Maybe give it a gentle stir to degas it.

 

[Blacksmith1]

the most common advice on this forum is to add K-meta at every other racking. it is to prevent, or at least lower the chances of oxidation.
You will also find that there are many differing opinions on just about any method, technique, additive, ETC. that can be used during brewing. As they are fond of reminding us on here, your results may not be the same as mine ( or YMMV) due to differences in timing, temp, sugar levels, or any other variable involved.
Kinda cool in that with few exceptions no one is right or wrong. Our version of Schroedinger's cat.

 

[Maylar]

the most common advice on this forum is to add K-meta at every other racking. it is to prevent, or at least lower the chances of oxidation.
You will also find that there are many differing opinions on just about any method, technique, additive, ETC. that can be used during brewing. As they are fond of reminding us on here, your results may not be the same as mine ( or YMMV) due to differences in timing, temp, sugar levels, or any other variable involved.
Kinda cool in that with few exceptions no one is right or wrong. Our version of Schroedinger's cat.

This is true in pretty much every aspect of life. There are the "accepted" ways of doing things that are taught because they've been proven to work in all cases. Yet there are exceptions where someone does those things in a contrary way and somehow manages to excel at it. Don't take golf lessons from Arnold Palmer... his swing sucks. Yet he managed to be a world champion.

But I digress...

The 50 ppm sulfite addition every other racking is a fairly safe way of keeping your creations from becoming oxidized. Scientifically, the correct dose depends on pH and you need to be able to measure both pH and SO2 levels to do it "right". Few home brewers are that serious about it. I just bought my first SO2 kit and I've been at this a long time.

Then, as you said, there are those who don't use sulfite at all. Good for them.

 

[danpshack]

This is true in pretty much every aspect of life. There are the "accepted" ways of doing things that are taught because they've been proven to work in all cases. Yet there are exceptions where someone does those things in a contrary way and somehow manages to excel at it. Don't take golf lessons from Arnold Palmer... his swing sucks. Yet he managed to be a world champion.

But I digress...

The 50 ppm sulfite addition every other racking is a fairly safe way of keeping your creations from becoming oxidized. Scientifically, the correct dose depends on pH and you need to be able to measure both pH and SO2 levels to do it "right". Few home brewers are that serious about it. I just bought my first SO2 kit and I've been at this a long time.

Then, as you said, there are those who don't use sulfite at all. Good for them.

How much is 50 ppm? Teaspoon?

 

[Blacksmith1]

if you are using tablets basically one tab per gallon, if powder then by the instruction on the package comes close to that. if you have the means to do the measurements and go the science route then bonus.

 

[danpshack]

if you are using tablets basically one tab per gallon, if powder then by the instruction on the package comes close to that. if you have the means to do the measurements and go the science route then bonus.

Package says 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons. I’m going to throw that in and give it a stir. I plan on aging another 4-5 months combined between secondary and bottles. Will adding this hurt my chances of bottle priming with corn sugar? Think that’ll work?

 

[Blacksmith1]

it shouldn't. this is an anti oxidant, if you want to stabilize then potassium sorbate will stop the yeast from multiplying however any live yeasts will continue to ferment available sugars.

 

[danpshack]

I think I'm just going to wait it out a little. I moved it to secondary on Dec. 10th. I was thinking about bottling around Feb.10th. If it doesn't clear by then I'll try de-gassing.

 

[danpshack]

I de-gassed and added sulfites, seems to be clearing now. Next question: Should I cold crash the cider before I bottle? I plan on adding priming sugar and bottle carbing.