First Time Water Adjustment Help

[JohnK93]

Hello all,

I've been brewing all grain for a couple of years using my well water without any adjustments and finally got a water test from Ward Labs. I'm just starting to learn about water and how it affects brewing, so I'm looking for some initial help as I figure things out. Below are the results:

pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 300
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.50
Cations / Anions, me/L 4.9 / 4.8

ppm
Sodium, Na 7
Potassium, K 4
Calcium, Ca 68
Magnesium, Mg 14
Total Hardness, CaCO3 228
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 10
Chloride, Cl 66
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 141
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 117
Total Phosphorus, P 0.01
Total Iron, Fe 0.01

I've entered this info into the Bru'n spreadsheet along with my recipe for an ordinary bitter. Estimated mash pH seems good at 5.35, but I'm not certain where to go from here. I'm playing around with the water adjustment tab with a Burton water profile but am stumbling on what to do.

Any feedback on my water results or suggestions on where to go from here?

Thanks a lot!

John

 

[TheMadKing]

What do you have plugged into Brun water? Can you post a screenshot of your spreadsheets?

The basic idea is that you plug your water contents into the spreadsheet, then enter ingredients (the color and malt type are important, so pay attention to every field). Then if your mash pH or mineral content needs adjustment, you can plug that into the adjustment sheet and mess with acid additions until you hit a pH of ~5.4

You have a fair amount of bicarbonate in your water, so I suspect you have entered something wrong if it's giving you a mash pH of 5.35 for an ordinary bitter recipe.

 

[JohnK93]

Thanks for the quick feedback. I've attached some screenshots. The grain bill tab shows the pH before any adjustments (existing water) to be 5.35, and I've started playing around with the water adjustments tab too. I haven't touched the sparge acidifcation tab.

My chloride looks too high to start with for a Burton profile, so I'd have to dilute to get the chloride down. My pH would be too low with the adjustments shown.

Is the game to adjust the numbers until everything lines up?

I've been happy with the results of this recipe without any adjustments so I'm hesitant to go too crazy for my first brew with water adjustments without really knowing what I'm doing! I have no frame of reference for how much is too much at this point.

Thanks,
John

 

[TheMadKing]

I'll let one of the experts give you more specific advice, but IMO targeting that Burton water profile is what's leading you somewhat astray. That's a massive amount of gypsum (I've never used more than 7g in a beer before). You also don't need the chalk because it won't do anything unless you dissolve it in a solution by bubbling CO2 through it first, so just get rid of that.

You might also check your mash and sparge volumes, that's a very thick mash, but I BIAB so I'm used to doing full volume mashes.

Your pH result is a combination of the massive gypsum addition combined with a thick mash. If you thin your mash, or reduce your gypsum the pH will increase a bit. You can keep it on target with lactic acid additions.

 

[mlafnitzegger]

When I first started adjusting water profiles:
1 - water report
2 - Experiment

Thats it. It's all about what taste good - great to you. I went to the extremes first; very high gypsum for one very high Calcium Chloride for another. I finally drilled down to what taste great to me. I mainly brew Northeast Style IPAs.

 

[JohnK93]

MadKing - Yeah, agreed. Just looking through the profiles listed I did notice how high Burton is on many of the minerals, I just picked it because I've heard of it and it seemed appropriate for a bitter. Maybe not the best place to jump off, though.

I usually target a water/grist ratio of 1.25 (I think...have to check beersmith).

If I change to a London water profile (for lack of a better idea), all I need is .1g/gal gypsum to come reasonable close to targets.

 

[TheMadKing]

MadKing - Yeah, agreed. Just looking through the profiles listed I did notice how high Burton is on many of the minerals, I just picked it because I've heard of it and it seemed appropriate for a bitter. Maybe not the best place to jump off, though.

I usually target a water/grist ratio of 1.25 (I think...have to check beersmith).

If I change to a London water profile (for lack of a better idea), all I need is .1g/gal gypsum to come reasonable close to targets.

I'm hesitant to give you detailed advice because I'm no expert on water chemistry. That is better left to Martin or Aj (our resident water gurus).

I can tell you what works for me though:

I almost always start with one of the generic water profiles, but since you're making an ordinary bitters, I think a London (boiled) profile is appropriate. Regardless of which profile you choose, ignore the ppm of alkalinity in it. That does not affect flavor significantly and only serves as a measurement of the buffering capacity of the water. Basically the lower I can get that number, the easier I find brewing water adjustments.

It's easier (in general) to start with clean water (100% reverse osmosis filtered) and built up a profile. You are starting with 200+ ppm of alkalinity which means that you're going to need to acidify your sparge water significantly or risk extracting tannins from a high pH sparge (greater than 6).

As a general rule, don't use the brewing salts to hit your desired pH. Put in the brewing salts to achieve the mineral balance you want for flavor, and then acidify with lactic acid or thin your mash to hit the pH. I have never once needed to add CaCO3 to a brew...ever...if that tells you anything.

Since you mash pretty thick, you won't have as much trouble acidifying your mash as me (full volume mash), but for lighter beers like pilsners you will want to reduce your mineral content by dilution as much as possible.

Think of the salts as flavoring enhancers (just like with food) and the pH as a separate parameter that you need to manipulate for mash efficiency.

 

[JohnK93]

MadKing,

Thanks, and I know that there are a lot of variables to balance here, so I appreciate any advice. With a new baby and barely any time (or money) to even brew, I don't see installing an RO system in my future! I know I could start with "cleaner" water, but for now I'm trying to make do with my tap water. It's served me pretty well so far, but if I can make some simple adjustments during the mash & sparge to improve flavor, I'll give it a shot.

Thanks again. Just diving into this (pun intended) and have a lot to learn.

John

 

[TheMadKing]

MadKing,

Thanks, and I know that there are a lot of variables to balance here, so I appreciate any advice. With a new baby and barely any time (or money) to even brew, I don't see installing an RO system in my future! I know I could start with "cleaner" water, but for now I'm trying to make do with my tap water. It's served me pretty well so far, but if I can make some simple adjustments during the mash & sparge to improve flavor, I'll give it a shot.

Thanks again. Just diving into this (pun intended) and have a lot to learn.

John

Do you live near a grocery store with a bulk water dispenser? That's what I used to do when I had hard water. 5 gallons of filtered water for $9 added to the brew day, but well worth it for the improvement in quality I noticed. Glad to help! It looks like you're doing almost everything right with the spreadsheet, so give it a shot!

 

[mabrungard]

Don't use the Burton profile since it is rather extreme and minerally. You will be better served with the Yellow Dry profile in an ESB.

 

[JohnK93]

MadKing - yeah, I'm sure I could lug some water home. I just know that the more work I have to do, the less likely I'll do it. Aren't we all trying to make the best beer for the least amount of money and effort? Well, at least that's where I'm at right now.

mabrungard - thanks for the tip. those numbers seem much more attainable for me.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (assuming my process, yeast, and fermenting are all under control), how much of a flavor difference do you think adjusting my water will make for this style?

Thanks,
John

 

[mabrungard]

On a scale of 1 to 10 (assuming my process, yeast, and fermenting are all under control), how much of a flavor difference do you think adjusting my water will make for this style?

It can be a notable difference. The main thing is to have sufficient sulfate to dry the beer finish and let the rest of the hopping and bitterness to come out.