First time Cider maker - Help needed please?

[charliebigspuds]

Hi, I hope you can help me, I've picked some apples and would like to make some cider. I have done some research on the matter and have some big holes that need filling in, so this is the plan...

I have a 25 litre plastic container with plastic lid. I think I have enough apples for approx 15 litres of juice.

Q - There is no hole in the lid? Do I need one and do I need one of those air lock things?

I intend to sanitize the container using Sodium Metabisulphite. After I put the apple juice in to the container I want to kill the natural yeast by adding further Sodium Metabisulphite to the juice.

Q. What is the ratio of water to Sodium Metabisulphite to sanitize?
Q Ratio of apple juice to Sodium Metabisulphite to kill yeast?

I will then add my cider yeast a day later.

I was thinking of leaving the container under the stairs in my kitchen where it won't be disturbed. I won't be to hot or cold, Q do you think that is suitable or should it be in a shed or garage?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Wow, you have a LOT of questions. Okay let's start from the top, I have heard of people using things as simple as a condom for an airlock and have heard of people using only a dish cloth. My belief is "why risk it? ". Your local homebrew store (or online) has these readily available for about a buck. It will prevent bad stuff like wild yeasts, bacteria and oxygen from getting in. Unless you have a need for 15 litres of vinegar but I digress. Next is sodium metabisulfate a.k.a Campden tablets, first thing is THEY DO NOT KILL YEAST. They will only stop the yeast from reproducing. You will do good to add them to fresh apple juice to stop those wild yeasts from multiplying untill your store bought yeasts take over the batch. The rule of thumb is one campden tablet per gallon then let it sit for 24 hours. Lastly temperature, there is no one size fits all when it comes to this. Different yeasts like different temperatures. Since this is your first batch I would recommend Safale S-04 ale yeast which does very well from 65-75 degrees. I hope this helps, good luck and welcome to your new addiction

 

[charliebigspuds]

Thanks for the prompt reply, I have lots of questions, because other than picking apples, I don't really know what I'm doing.

I have an airlock already, so I'll drill a hole in the lid to make it fit. I don't like the sound of vinegar.

Regarding the wild yeast, have a 500 g bag of sodium metabisulfate. I don't have the tablets, that's why I was after a specific amounts, I've since found this;

sodium Dosage:
• Wild Yeast: 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons of must.
• Sanitation: 2 oz. to 1 gallon of water.

Does that sound about right?

I

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Sounds right, 1 of the tablets appears to be about 1/4 tsp. Concerning drilling the hole, 1/2 inch drillbit and a rubber bung is all you need. I currently use a 3 gallon P.E.T. water bottle from walmart and I used the same method, it provides a very good seal.

 

[Homercidal]

I have a question. You've picked the apples, how do you intend to grind and press them? From what I've heard, it's not an easy task to do without a decent grinder and press, but some people make it work for a small amount of cider.

 

[charliebigspuds]

I'm going to chop them up by hand and juice in a juicer. It's going to take hours.

 

[funnyfarmer]

i also chopped and juiced. i strained off all the froth(head) not sure if that was a mistake. after adding campden the remains settled and its real clear like store bought juice. delicious at the very least. pitched my yeast(lalvin D47) with a cup of brown sugar and 2tsp each of pectic enzyme & yeast energyzer(lady at pubs said i needed em) almost 24hrs ago. hope it starts bubbling soon. do i need a hydrometer?

 

[funnyfarmer]

pubs should say LHBS. and it did take hours took 4 of us 12 hrs to pick all my apples and juice 150lbs. but we had fun. hope you do too. clean your filter often.

 

[ROLLTIDE]

I would only recommend a hydrometer if you want any clue what your potential ABV is going to be and if you want to stop fermentation before it hits terminal dryness .

 

[funnyfarmer]

Thanks. I'm not too concerned with abv and if it's too dry can I back sweeten? Is back sweetening just putting in fresh juice before bottling? Or is there more to it than that? And should by cider be bubbling by now? It's been 36hrs now since I pitched yeast and sugar.

 

[ROLLTIDE]

I backsweeten with frozen concentrate, more apple taste. If you add fermentable sugar the yeast will begin fermentation again. What are your plans for it after you backsweeten? And concerning your yeast, it depends on the type of yeast. Some are slower than others, give it another 48 hours then you may start thinking about another starter.

 

[funnyfarmer]

IM not even sure i know what back sweetening is. mostly i just want it to be drinkable. i would like to make some carbed. i got some of those flip top bottles from aldis. kind of worried about bottle bombs though. i just don't want 5 gallons of vinegar. its been 60hrs now and nothing. do you think a new starter tomorrow or wait till Friday morning?

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Are you sure there is no airlock action? It would not hurt anything to add another starter at this point either way. You did wait at least 24 hours to pitch after you dropped in the campden tablets and potassium sorbate, yes?

 

[funnyfarmer]

Yes. I waited almost 48hrs. Should I use the same kind of yeast or try another kind?

 

[funnyfarmer]

I only added campden. Should I have added potassium sulfate too? And what's PS for?

 

[funnyfarmer]

its bubbling!! about 2 sec in-between bubbles. my basement is roughly 60°f so maybe that's why it took so long. how slow should it get before i rack or just get a hydrometer and check it next Thursday?

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Hoooraaayyyyy !! Yep, the cooler temp would definitley play a part but that is a good temp. I really do recommend a hydrometer but you can expect at LEAST a week of good fermentation before it starts to slow down but at 60 degrees, I'd say better than two weeks. Although letting it sit for a month till completely dry and backsweetening if you want is always an option

 

[funnyfarmer]

so i can let it go a month before racking? Is back sweetening and secondary fermentation the same thing? thank you so much for all you answers.

 

[ROLLTIDE]

No, racking to secondary is simply transferring from the original fermentation vessel to a second container with it's main purpose being to help clarify the liquid. There seems to be some debate as to whether there is even a need to do this with some people claiming that leaving it on the yeast cake too long produces off flavors. I think that is more of a beer issue than cider though. If you don't mind your cider a little cloudy, you can rack straight to bottle. Backsweetening is the process of adding sweetness after fermentation. You can do this if you let it ferment out completely to dry and want to cut some of the bitterness. But if you do backsweeten with a fementable sugar, the yeast will begin fermenting again. You can always sweeten with a nonfermentable like stevia or splenda, although this will result in a still cider.

 

[TexasWine]

But if you do backsweeten with a fementable sugar, the yeast will begin fermenting again.

Roll Tide is absolutely right, fermentation will kick in again if you add more sugar. That's how folks do things like bottle condition. Back sweetening (or just sweetening) implies you're going for something sweeter and carbonated. That means that once you've hit your desired carbonation level you'll have to stop those stinking greedy yeast from eating all your sugar and turning it into alcohol.

You can do this multiple ways, but one of the most popular methods is stove top pasteurization. There's a sticky in the cider forum all about how to do this.

Assuming you're bottling this stuff, keep in mind that if you sweeten beyond what is required for bottle conditioning you must stop the fermentation process or you'll end up with bottle bombs.

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Thanks Tex. Funnyfarmer, I wish I could help you more beyond this but none of mine had made it any farther than cold crashing yet. I have drank it all before it got any further, lol. Mostly because I did not have a capper or bottles. Thanks to ebay and a trip to the grocery store I now have both. So this weekend I get my feet wet bottling some cinnamon sour apple made just for my swmbo. Wish me luck

 

[funnyfarmer]

good luck sir. idk if you a post elsewhere on this site. but aldis has n/a pumpkin cider in flip top bottles for $2 which is less than my LHBS was selling new ones for. if my kid can't drink it all IM just gunna dump it. cinnamon sour apple sounds good. if all goes well this year i hope to do some experimenting next year. i do plan on making some apple Jack this yr if i get enough cider. oh ya. bottle conditioning? is that just carbing in the bottle?

 

[ROLLTIDE]

The sour apple was a happy mistake. If you add sugar you get a wine taste and she hates wine so simple solution, don't add sugar right? Not exactly, when you don't add sugar and cold crash early to save some of the original sugars you get a tart as **** wine/ cider. Happy mistake because she loved it, go figure. Bottle conditioning is carbing yes but it also lets flavors develop. You can have something that tastes like a goat's @$$ and let it sit for a few weeks to a few months and end up with elixir of the gods. That's why aged wines, really good vinegars and cheeses taste so good.....ugh cheese, I'm hooked on making that too and haven't even started.

 

[ericbw]

good luck sir. idk if you a post elsewhere on this site. but aldis has n/a pumpkin cider in flip top bottles for $2 which is less than my LHBS was selling new ones for. if my kid can't drink it all IM just gunna dump it. cinnamon sour apple sounds good. if all goes well this year i hope to do some experimenting next year. i do plan on making some apple Jack this yr if i get enough cider. oh ya. bottle conditioning? is that just carbing in the bottle?

The aldi cider is great and the bottles are perfect.

 

[funnyfarmer]

your guys help has been invaluable so far. can't thank you enuff. i bought a hydrometer. it has stoped bubbling sometime in the last three days. i had to go outta town. thinking about racking to secondary when i test hydrometer. so i can start next batch. should i add more brown sugar or just another glass of cider(can cider be from fridge or room temp?)?

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Your hydrometer (good decision to get one BTW) is only going to tell you how much sugar is left at this point. Adding any fermentable sugars at this point is going to restart your yeast. If you want a still wine then you need to add campden and/or potassium sorbate. You DO NOT WANT BOTTLE BOMBS. At bare minimum, if you add sugar you need to cold crash it.

 

[funnyfarmer]

is cold crashing just putting it in the fridge?

 

[ROLLTIDE]

Always works for me, the problem is running out of fridge space......giving them away must come with strict instructions to keep them cold. You don't want to injure your test subjects

 

[funnyfarmer]

IM pretty sure i don't know how to use the hydrometer. i took a drink of the "cider" when i racked to secondary tank. swimbo thinks it tastes like beer. i taste a faint viniger taste. adding more yeast and sugar. hope its not a mistake.

 

[ROLLTIDE]

IM pretty sure i don't know how to use the hydrometer. i took a drink of the "cider" when i racked to secondary tank. swimbo thinks it tastes like beer. i taste a faint viniger taste. adding more yeast and sugar. hope its not a mistake.

Why are you adding more yeast and sugar? This is going to restart fermentation and give it even more of an alcohol /wine taste. If you want less of that taste, use just apple juice and stop the fermentation before it ferments out to dry but that will have to be the next batch. Save the yeast and chalk this one up as a learning experience and try again. All of mine thus far have been treated that way. They will only get better. As far as learning to use your hydrometer, got to youtube. Its pretty simple once you have seen it done.