First time brewing anything -- need help

[g2n]

Ok I'm lost.

Here's what I did:

Bought 5 gallons of apple juice.

Simmered it for 5-10 minutes.

Made a Nottingham yeast starter.

Added the juice to the 5 gallon carboy.

Apparently the juice was still hot after cooling for an hour, it killed the yeast.

Someone said to add more yeast. So I added another packet of yeast of a different brand (because the brand I wanted was sold out)

Proofed the yeast, added, and then put an air lock.

And now it's been fermenting for 5 days now.

The question remains. What the hell do I do next?

More specifically, how many more weeks should I wait? I ask because I don't know whether or not to do a secondary fermentation. I only have one carboy (and one air lock) but I still have the original food grade plastic jugs that came with the juice. Should I pour my hard cider into those jugs after X weeks for secondary fermentation?

Please any suggestions would be nice. I'm on a budget.

 

[CA_Mouse]

I've let mine go in the primary for a month and only transfer to a carboy if I'm planning on a long aging time. THe current one I have going is just about 4 weeks in the primary and I'll be back sweetening it and bottling this coming weekend. Most likely I will be pasteurizing it immediately after bottling and then aging.

 

[tripplehazzard]

You will have alcohol. But you need more specifics. Brewing is all about specific variables. If you just want to get f upped this will work great. But hone your skills do the research snd work and it will pay off

 

[UpstateMike]

Here's what I did:

Bought 5 gallons of apple juice.

Simmered it for 5-10 minutes.

Never, ever, EVER, do you need to cook / simmer / heat / boil cider. Not only will it set the pectins in the cider, it will change the flavor, and not in a good way. This is cider, not beer, we do not boil everything.

Do you have a hydrometer? If so, what was your starting gravity?

I would recommend using pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient and yeast energizer at the beginning of every batch. Some others also add acid blend and tannin.

 

[g2n]

Never, ever, EVER, do you need to cook / simmer / heat / boil cider. Not only will it set the pectins in the cider, it will change the flavor, and not in a good way. This is cider, not beer, we do not boil everything.

Do you have a hydrometer? If so, what was your starting gravity?

I would recommend using pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient and yeast energizer at the beginning of every batch. Some others also add acid blend and tannin.

I was told to heat the juice, not boil it, so that's what I did. I have a hydrometer but it's in the mail so I didn't have the luxury of getting a starting gravity.

Question for anyone:
Is it okay to do secondary fermentation inside the original 1 gallon containers (with sealed lids) after a month of primary?

 

[g2n]

I've let mine go in the primary for a month and only transfer to a carboy if I'm planning on a long aging time. THe current one I have going is just about 4 weeks in the primary and I'll be back sweetening it and bottling this coming weekend. Most likely I will be pasteurizing it immediately after bottling and then aging.

I might let mine sit for 4 weeks. I only have one carboy. How do I age it with one carboy? Do I drain everything into the original 1 gallon containers, clean the carboy, drain everything back, and then let it age?

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I'm no expert, but I would think that you could just leave it alone and let it continue in the primary fermenter.

If I am wrong, someone will correct me, but moving it around from here to there and so forth just seems like an opportunity to mess things up. Near as I can tell, you've got some good cider going!

 

[MarkKF]

I was told to heat the juice, not boil it, so that's what I did. I have a hydrometer but it's in the mail so I didn't have the luxury of getting a starting gravity.

Question for anyone:
Is it okay to do secondary fermentation inside the original 1 gallon containers (with sealed lids) after a month of primary?

Who told you cuz most noobies do it and everything I've read here says not to. I only heat a small amount, enough to dissolve sugar. Then add it back to the cold juice and let it sit over night to get up to basement temp.

 

[UpstateMike]

I was told to heat the juice, not boil it, so that's what I did.

Who told you cuz most noobies do it and everything I've read here says not to.

If I were to take a wild guess, I would say it was someone with a beer brewing background.

 

[AidanSavage]

I might let mine sit for 4 weeks. I only have one carboy. How do I age it with one carboy? Do I drain everything into the original 1 gallon containers, clean the carboy, drain everything back, and then let it age?

If the original containers are glass, you might be able to get away with aging in them. If they're plastic, my honest suggestion as a person new to this as well, is to use them as a way to temporarily hold the cider while you clean out the carboy to age it in. Just mind headspace whatever you do.


As for cooking the juice, it's not needed, as you can either pitch raw or use campden tablets like a lot of people do/suggest.

 

[JimRausch]

Here's what I would do:
leave it in your fermenter for a total of 3 weeks- 2 weeks at room temperature and then 1 week at refrigerator temperature. The cold will help clarify and settle the yeast in a nice compact layer on the bottom. When you get your hydrometer, take a reading. Then after another 3 days , take another. They should be the same, and if they are your fermentation is complete. Then bottle them up, chill, and enjoy.

 

[Randzor]

Wait the 4 weeks and then bottle. Then age it in the bottle. Yes gou might get better results from agoing in another carboy, but since your new and don't have another skip that step.

 

[g2n]

Wait the 4 weeks and then bottle. Then age it in the bottle. Yes gou might get better results from agoing in another carboy, but since your new and don't have another skip that step.

Ok. I'm going to wait 4 weeks (Dec 26th) and take some readings.

Someone mentioned using the plastic gallon containers (or a 5 gal bucket) to temporarily hold the cider until I clean the carboy, and pour it back into the carboy for aging. Should I do that?

 

[CA_Mouse]

Ok. I'm going to wait 4 weeks (Dec 26th) and take some readings.

Someone mentioned using the plastic gallon containers (or a 5 gal bucket) to temporarily hold the cider until I clean the carboy, and pour it back into the carboy for aging. Should I do that?

I think you would be better served by bottling instead of transferring multiple times. If you are planning on the cider not being carbonated, then I would add metabisulphite or campden tablets wait 2 days and cold crash. This will put the yeast to sleep and cold crashing will drop them from suspension, the transfer to your bottling bucket and bottle away. You can let them warm up to room temperature and then pasteurize them using the stove top pasteurization thread here

 

[Randzor]

No as you'll oxidize the cider. The less moving and exposure to air the better.

 

[g2n]

So I don't have glass bottles to store them in.

Should I just wait 4 weeks and then store in plastic containers? I would imagine that I don't need airlocks on those if they finished fermenting.

 

[Randzor]

Well if you don't have glass bottles you might have to pound down some cider... alternativly you could shop on amazon and get yourself 24 bottles caps a capper and a bottling bucket and do it right.

 

[g2n]

Well if you don't have glass bottles you might have to pound down some cider... alternativly you could shop on amazon and get yourself 24 bottles caps a capper and a bottling bucket and do it right.

I might have to do that.. Thanks!

 

[Len_Andov]

I'm doing my first cider too. I did a test run which turned out really well so I bought 3 more to do it again!

I got 3 (3qt) glass jugs of Knudsons Spiced Cider and a three pack strip of bread yeast. Then I bought 3 airlock and 3 drilled stopper, one for each.

I poured off approx 1 cup of cider from each jug. Then I put 4 cups of distilled water and 3 cups of sugar on the stove to boil. After the sugar was dissolved I cooled the solution with a lid on it until the pot and liquid were neither hot nor cold to touch. Then I stirred it one last time and added roughly 1/3rd to each, pitched one packet dry yeast into each jug, bunged them and poured vodka into the airlock. I had airlock bubbles activity after eight hours, rapid and steady after 12, slowed down after 36 hours but still steady and it's day four. I should probly get some house plants to put near them?

You could leave the cider in the carboy until the airlock shows little to no activity. Take a sample and record the gravity reading. Do it again every 24 hours and compare. They probly say 3 days because the readings are so tight you might need 3days to eyeball a change. Just be accurate. When the reading doesn't change it's because the "stuff" has stopped changing.

Or you could... leave the cider in the carboy until the airlock shows little to no activity. Take a sample and record the gravity reading. Add a cup of sugar (dissolve it in warm [not hot] distilled water first) to the carboy and see if there are bubbles tomorrow. If yes, wait until no airlock activity then take a reading, record the gravity, add a cup of sugar and check back tomorrow again...

Eventually the yeast will die because the alcohol content is so high they can't live in it. At which point adding more sugar will add sweetness only. Maybe some citric acid for tartness.

Or you could use heat, like boiling it again with a lid on it to heat kill the yeast. Just remember alcohol will gas out at lower than boil temp. Even a lid won't keep it all in but at least you can sweeten without fermenting further.

You can use chemicals to kill or sleeperhold the yeast. Then sweeten to taste. If you don't mind chemicals or "additives."

As for the plastic jugs, no. Moving the stuff will cause chaos, confusion, and pinkeye. Just kidding. It will be fine in the big carboy until you're ready for bottling. Something with a good seal that won't leak under pressure. Do it right. You've got three weeks.

Next time get glass jugs, also known as carboy (even tiny ones). Use a good recipe - one that explains what to do at sixty minutes and again at no airlock activity... Etc.

Lastly, dunno if I'm special or if everyone else agrees... Putting too much apple juice in you is gonna cancel ALL plans you had for the next day. You might wanna book cuz you're gonna have plenty of potty time.

I think it's great that you tried something new and I hope it turns out ok. Learn from it and take notes cuz you will forget details. Next time try what some others have done and see if you like a tried-and-true method.

Oh and remember three things: clean well, sanitize well, and clean and sanitize well

Cheers
-A-

 

[UpstateMike]

Well if you don't have glass bottles you might have to pound down some cider... alternativly you could shop on amazon and get yourself 24 bottles caps a capper and a bottling bucket and do it right.

I might have to do that.. Thanks!

A cheap source for bottles would be your local recycling center. I can get a case of pryoff cap bottles for $1.20, which sure beats my LHBS when they want $12 for a case of new 12 oz bottles. Just be sure to thoroughly clean them.

 

[bernardsmith]

So I don't have glass bottles to store them in.

Should I just wait 4 weeks and then store in plastic containers? I would imagine that I don't need airlocks on those if they finished fermenting.

One of the by-products of fermentation is carbon dioxide gas. Half the weight of the sugar is transformed into alcohol and half the weight is transformed into this gas. By weight that is a lot of gas. You have been fermenting your cider with an airlock. An airlock allows a lot of the gas to escape. A lot, but not all of it. If you cap your cider too early you will have two problems to contend with. The first is that any viable yeast still in the cider will still be fermenting any sugar still available to it. That will create increasing pressure on the cap and walls of the container.
The second problem is that the gas trapped in the cider will slowly degas and will exert pressure on the cap and walls of the container.
The outcome can be -if you are lucky - popped caps and volcanoes of cider. if you are not so lucky you can have exploding bottles and flying glass. Don't know how much pressure plastic jugs can stand.
You want (I would think) to enable your cider to degas before you cap your carboy and if you prefer sparkling or petillant (some bubbles but not "sparkling") cider then you want to remove any residual CO2 and add a fixed amount of sugar (about 1 scant oz /gallon ) before capping. That amount of sugar will produce only about 1 or so volumes of CO2 and beer bottles and champagne bottles can easily withstand that amount of pressure. I believe the limit for a beer bottle may be 3 volumes of CO2 (and it is more for a champagne bottle. This is a long way of saying that cider makers who come from wine making backgrounds (at least all those I know) tend to use a wide mouthed food grade bucket covered loosely with a cloth or plastic lid (LOOSELY) as their primary fermenter. And when the density of their cider or mead or wine drops to around 1.005 they transfer their liquor into a vessel to which A) they can fill it completely right up into the neck with the liquid and B) they can attach a drilled bung and airlock.
During the time the cider (or wine or mead) is in the first (or primary) fermenting vessel they can 1) incorporate air into the liquid - as yeast really does need air in the early part of the process and 2) help remove the CO2 being produced as they whip air into the liquid.
Long story short: looks like your cider will be fine but you need to be careful that you do not bottle it while there is a great deal of gas absorbed in the liquid. Next time you make your cider you don't need an airlock until almost all the sugar has been fermented out. That is the point when you would transfer (rack) your cider to a secondary vessel - often misidentified as the "secondary fermentation". It ain't. It's simply a second vessel - one that excludes air. You do want to be able to be able to whip air into the cider while the yeast is actively fermenting. You do want to exclude air after the yeast is no longer so active.
Cider ain't beer and cider making ain't brewing.