First time berliner weiss

[damlamb]

Tried no boil berliner weiss recipe from Michael Tonsmeire's book. I just started enjoying the first few bottles and it tastes good but im wondering if its possible that ALL the alcohol was turned into lactic acid? The beer is very sour but after quaffing a few the was no effect. I know this is a pretty low abv beer but Id expect a bit of a buzz after a few.

 

[foltster]

If it is drinkable then there could only be so much lactic acid produced. Probably in in the 0.18%-0.52% range according to the mad fermentationist blog.

What is the ABV according to OG/FG readings?

 

[k47k]

Berliner Wiesse is the wrong beer to be trying to get a buzz off of.

 

[botigol]

Lactobacillus converts sugar, not alcohol, into lactic acid. I think you are confusing it with acetobacter which converts alcohol into acetic acid (vinegar). What were your OG and FG?

 

[damlamb]

Ah yes botigol I was mistaken. OG was 1.038 and finished around 1.008.

 

[botigol]

As foltster wrote, there's not too much acid if it's drinkable, so nothing strange there. My calculation has it just under 4% abv; obviously not high, but not that low either. Maybe your alcohol tolerance is higher than you think

 

[Calder]

Lactic acid has a similar weight to sugar, so if it was all converted to lactic acid, the FG would be close to the OG.

As a rough approximation, you can apply the normal abv formula to a BW to calculate the % alcohol. It is only a rough estimation of alcohol, but should be close. So your beer would be around 4%

 

[burninator]

How's it taste, though?

 

[damlamb]

It tastes decent. I have only tried one example of this style before so i dont have much to compare. I experienced issues with bottle carbing and only half the bottles actually carbed up. Next time Im going to add a little bit of champagne yeast at bottling. Really tastes good with a shot of raspberry torani syrup but not really my style.

 

[burninator]

Think your carbing problem was a yeast issue or something on the bottles not sealing properly?

I started a batch of this last weekend with a half ounce of Saphir in the mash. Pitched lacto on Monday and US05 yesterday. Looking for it to come out nice and tart.

 

[damlamb]

Think your carbing problem was a yeast issue or something on the bottles not sealing properly?

I started a batch of this last weekend with a half ounce of Saphir in the mash. Pitched lacto on Monday and US05 yesterday. Looking for it to come out nice and tart.

I think it was a yeast issue only because i used both glass and plastic bottles and they seem to be equally effected. Also i have bottled at least 20+ batches and only ever had one bottle not seal. Good luck with your batch. What is saphir?

 

[burninator]

I think it was a yeast issue only because i used both glass and plastic bottles and they seem to be equally effected. Also i have bottled at least 20+ batches and only ever had one bottle not seal. Good luck with your batch. What is saphir?

Thanks. I'll keep an eye on that. Did you have an especially long primary?

Saphir is a Hallertauer variant.

 

[damlamb]

I did a one month primary and three months in secondary. Maybe a little exessive but I thought berliner weiss was supposed to age for an extended period like other sour beers but than i read that berliners are better consumed fresh once they taste good and tart.

 

[DPBISME]

Sounds wonderful to me,,, I love making low gravity beers.... That means I get to drink more. My Berliner Weiss came in a little under 3.5 and I do the same with my Saisons, as low as 3.2.

This is not something I was ever able to do brewing out of a can... Make a beer that tasted good but was low in Alcohol.

Brewing Now: Baltic Porter and ESB 10 gallons each...

 

[DPBISME]

I did a one month primary and three months in secondary. Maybe a little exessive but I thought berliner weiss was supposed to age for an extended period like other sour beers but than i read that berliners are better consumed fresh once they taste good and tart.

Age them to get them more sour...

I mean there are many QUICK WAYS to make a Berliner Weiss but I prefer using the

"WLP630 Berliner Weisse Blend:

A blend of a traditional German Weizen yeast and Lactobacillus to create a subtle, tart, drinkable beer. Can take several months to develop tart character. Perfect for traditional Berliner Weisse."

 

[Calder]

I did a one month primary and three months in secondary. Maybe a little exessive but I thought berliner weiss was supposed to age for an extended period like other sour beers but than i read that berliners are better consumed fresh once they taste good and tart.

There is your problem; 3 months secondary.

The acidic environment is hostile to yeast and likely killed off all of it during the 3 months. Should have pitched some cheap champagne yeast at bottling.

I like them fresh:

- 1 week with lacto at 100 F to sour
- Pitch a huge amount of yeast after it has soured
- 2 weeks later I'm bottling.
- 2 weeks later (5 weeks from start) and I am drinking it

 

[AK7007]

As long as you take a OG and FG reading, you know the ABV - the madfermentationist blog did the legwork regarding the math: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2013/11/calculating-abv-for-sour-beers.html

TL;DR - the adjustment you have to make for a sour beer is smaller than the various rounding and calibration errors that we make.

 

[burninator]

There is your problem; 3 months secondary.

The acidic environment is hostile to yeast and likely killed off all of it during the 3 months. Should have pitched some cheap champagne yeast at bottling.

I like them fresh:

- 1 week with lacto at 100 F to sour
- Pitch a huge amount of yeast after it has soured
- 2 weeks later I'm bottling.
- 2 weeks later (5 weeks from start) and I am drinking it

No boil between the lacto and yeast pitches?

 

[Calder]

No boil between the lacto and yeast pitches?

I boil for 5 minutes before I pitch the lacto, as it will be sitting several days without protection, so I want to minimize any potential of contamination. Once the lacto brings down the ph, that will protect the beer.

I do not boil between lacto and yeast. If you use a heterofermentative lacto strain, you really don't want to boil, as you will be boiling off the alcohol the lacto has created.

 

[burninator]

I boil for 5 minutes before I pitch the lacto, as it will be sitting several days without protection, so I want to minimize any potential of contamination. Once the lacto brings down the ph, that will protect the beer.

I do not boil between lacto and yeast. If you use a heterofermentative lacto strain, you really don't want to boil, as you will be boiling off the alcohol the lacto has created.

Exactly the method I'm using, though I'm attempting to time the development, rather than testing ph. I let mine go about 4 days, but it acted quickly on my starter, so I'm hoping that's enough.

I've been hearing so many different time frames for a beer like this. @Oldsock says to give it several months, but he uses brett, which I'm not doing.

 

[Weezy]

I've been wanting to do a Brett one....hmmm.

 

[youreanimpulse]

I use Brett after souring with Lacto without boiling and package tart beers like this in 2 months. Could have done less this last time. If it's low gravity and not super starchy it attenuates pretty quickly.

 

[damlamb]

Just recieved white labs 2015 yeast selection guide with my order of brewing supplies and noticed they sell a traditional berliner weiss blend. Has anyone had any experience using this yeast blend? Im going to purchase a vial with my next order but may be 5 or 6 months before i get around to brewing another batch of berliner.

 

[k47k]

I use a lot of white labs but have never used their berliner blend. it does not get good reviews.

kettle souring with Wyeast 5335, boil and pitch wyeast 1007 has worked very well for me, very clean lacto and drinking in 3 weeks.

I have used Wyeast Debom which is brett and lacto, i refermented on raspberries and it was good but not a berliner, little too much funk.

I just got a pack of wyeast 3191-PC Berliner Blend. ill be making it in a few weeks but i expect this to be one that takes a few months to sour.

 

[DPBISME]

Just recieved white labs 2015 yeast selection guide with my order of brewing supplies and noticed they sell a traditional berliner weiss blend. Has anyone had any experience using this yeast blend? Im going to purchase a vial with my next order but may be 5 or 6 months before i get around to brewing another batch of berliner.

I have used it and was pleased,,, I made a very low gravity Berliner Weiss but know that it does take a while to get sour and my 10 galloons were gone be fore it was "real" sour.

 

[Weezy]

I'd think that the success of any mixed yeast culture like that would depend heavily on the brewer and their fermentation methods.