First three batches under my belt. Off flavor observations

[IslandDano]

So I started with a Mr Brew kit and now I'm on my third batch of all grain recipes. I've got a 3 gallon set up.

First two batches are in bottles and my first bottles from each batch have that "wet cardboard" like off flavor. I'm not surprised by this but my first batch is in week two of bottle conditioning and it's still pretty lame tasting.

My second batch which I think had a much smoother boil, fermentation, and transfer to conditioning process was pretty lame on my first bottle taste today.

At the moment I'm not using distilled water for my mash. I'm wondering if I need to start drilling down on the finer tunes of the process to get cleaner results. Any recommendations off the top of anyone's head to share?

FWIW they're both IPAs. One is a two row base and the other is a wheat based NEIPA. Now if these bottles get better after a month or so conditioning I'll be happy but right now these beers aren't worth sharing with anyone. I'll drink them but to be honest they aren't enjoyable.

I also wondered if dry hopping is leaving an oil like flavor and if I should dial this back.

Other than the distilled water issue, I think maybe I've pitched yeast too soon? Not sure.

 

[Yooper]

Distilled water is ok- I can see the beer tasting perhaps a little blander than something with some additions, but not any off-flavors at all.

The first thing after water I look at is the yeast strain, and the fermentation temperatures. Can you give some details on that?

"Wet cardboard" is a classic description of a badly oxidized beer. The beer would have been splashed or stirred or something to allow oxygen contact after fermentation took place, but it sounds like you knew that and are picking up something different in the latest batch?

 

[Horseflesh]

You might consider brewing a simpler beer until you get your system running right. Dry hopping, for example, is just one more place for things to go wrong.

If you are Using tap water I do recommend using a campden tablet to eliminate chlorine/chloramine. They don't produce the type of flavors you are describing, but eliminating them is always a good idea.

 

[IslandDano]

I'm fermenting between 68 and 72. It's in a dark spot but it's basically room temperature. I think my problem is I'm not cooling enough after the boil and likely pitching yeast between 80 and 90 degrees.

 

[IslandDano]

I can see that. I will note that aroma before bottling has been fantastic and aroma after a week in bottles is has bee "meh".

Possibly some active yeast during conditioning?

 

[Yooper]

I'm fermenting between 68 and 72. It's in a dark spot but it's basically room temperature. I think my problem is I'm not cooling enough after the boil and likely pitching yeast between 80 and 90 degrees.

That's too warm, and could be a big issue.

If your room is 70 degrees, the fermenting beer could be much warmer. I've seen actively fermenting beer be 10 degrees warmer than the ambient air temperature. And if you're pitching at 85 degrees, that would compound the problem.

They make those "stick on" thermometers for fermenters, or you could grab an aquarium thermometer, to double check the fermentation temperature. In almost all cases, a room temperature of 68 degrees will be too warm I'm afraid. You could try a water bath in a cooler (and drop a frozen water bottle in the water bath to keep it cooler), and that will go a long way to making the fermentation temperature proper. You generally want the fermentation temperature itself to be 64-68 degrees, depending on the yeast strain you're using.

 

[Yooper]

I can see that. I will note that aroma before bottling has been fantastic and aroma after a week in bottles is has bee "meh".

Possibly some active yeast during conditioning?

There is something along with this, also. If the aroma before bottling is great, but after it has been in the bottles a bit it grows stale, that is likely oxidation.

I'd take a good long look at your bottling procedure and make sure to eliminate any pouring/splashing/stirring.

Do you siphon quietly to a bottling bucket into the priming solution and then use a bottling wand? Or something else?

 

[IslandDano]

I'm starting to come to this realization as well. I have the ability to do the cooler batch idea you suggested.

 

[IslandDano]

I siphoned from the carboy to a bucket for priming mixing then siphoned to bottles

I believe for my next batch I will prime individual bottles with corn syrup. But I do like to get the beer off the yeast cake before bottling.

But then again what do I know it's my third batch!

 

[WestMichBrewer]

I'm fermenting between 68 and 72. It's in a dark spot but it's basically room temperature. I think my problem is I'm not cooling enough after the boil and likely pitching yeast between 80 and 90 degrees.

I've settled on a process where I cool my 3.5 gallons of wort by placing the boil pot in cold water in the kitchen sink.
I then siphon to the carboy and put the carboy in my fermentation spot in the basement (maybe with a water bath too) and let it cool and stabilize to ~64 degrees overnight.
This has been working great for me but you have have to make sure your sanitation is good to avoid the potential of some other bugs take hold of your wort before you pitch the next morning.

 

[IslandDano]

I do the same thing. However, I don't think I'm cooling it down enough.

I also don't have a basement. So it appears as though I'll have to assemble a contraption to get my fermentation temp down.

 

[derekcw83]

Sounds to me like you may have multiple issues going on. I'll go through the major improvements I made that you pretty much need to ensure a good product:

Ferm temp, get it controlled and on the cool side of what the yeast needs

Water quality, at the very least start using distilled water, then learn about building your own profiles

Eliminate as much oxygen in transfer process, be super gentle to avoid splashing, and gently fill bottles to within a half inch of rim (others may disagree)

Use only fresh, vacuum sealed hops. Otherwise oxidized hops will ruin your ipa's.

Make those changes and your beer will improve.

 

[IslandDano]

Thanks for the response.

I think my transfer process is pretty clean. The fermentation temp seems to be my biggest issue.

I'll try distilled water next time and in the meantime I need to come up with a contraption to cool my fermentation process.

 

[Horseflesh]

Find a wine cooler big enough for your fermentation vessel and get a cheap plug-in temperature controller. You will have to bypass the fridge's own thermostat, though. How to do this is already known (and posted) for some units.

This particular Vissani/Magic Chef unit is big enough for a fermentation bucket or even a nice SS Brewtech Brew Bucket.

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.52-bottle-wine-cooler-black.1000411203.html

It is no longer made but you may be able to find one on Craigslist, and for about $50 if you are lucky. Bypassing the thermostat is a matter of cutting a jumping a couple of wires. I love these guys, I have 2. They are quiet and reliable.

You can get by with a swamp cooler, ice bottles, etc. But it is SO nice to have a cooler that you set & forget. That is time you can spend on other beer things! You also can't set a precise, repeatable temperature without using a fridge, and (IMHO) that matters.

 

[Bosh]

Thanks for the response.

I think my transfer process is pretty clean. The fermentation temp seems to be my biggest issue.

I'll try distilled water next time and in the meantime I need to come up with a contraption to cool my fermentation process.

But wet cardboard taste and disappearing hops are classic oxidation symptoms not stuff you get from high temps. High temps give you cheap vodka, fruit and bubble gum flavors.

 

[IslandDano]

Noted. I will see how my third batch turns out. It's fermenting in another room that's a couple degrees cooler than the previous two batches.

 

[jrgtr42]

Personally, I think your water is the least of your problems right now - though it wouldn't hurt to try bottled spring or distilled water next batch. Under a buck a gallon at any supermarket...
But as others mentioned, wet cardboard and hops falling out quickly are a hallmark of oxidized. Do you have a bottling bucket with a spigot near the bottom or are you using a siphon out the top? Do you have an auto-siphon or are you sucking / pumping away at it to get the flow started (man, that sounds dirty... :fro: )
Siphoning is probably the quickest way to get unwanted air mixing in your beer. An auto-siphon can help reduce this, and spigots even more so.
Also as others mentioned, temp control is key in brewing - possibly the only thing more important is sanitation.