First Sour Brew

[cody6173]

I'm planning on brewing my first sour this hitch home and just wanted to get the general consensus from the more experienced from some experienced sour brewers out there in homebrew land. I'm not planning on anything too crazy but I ordered Northern Brewer's Private Rye Brown Ale kit
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...kits/private-rye-brown-ale-all-grain-kit.html

which I plan to brew per kit instructions the only exception being that I will pitch Roeselare Blend to ferment with along with dregs from RR Consecration during fermentation. I'd like to get sourness/tartness of something like an Oude Tart. Will the Roeselare and dregs get me there? Also, what about a secondary on something like this that will be aging for an extended period of time or just leave on the Roeselare cake for maximum tartness? I've been thumbing through American Sour Beers and there seems like there's so many different ways to sour a beer just wanted to see of I'm missing something or if I should do anything differently.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Keep your IBU's low and it'll get you there. I like using aged hops in most of my sours.

I've left my Flanders Reds on the Roeselare cake for over a year without any ill effects. I think there's enough brett in there to handle any autolysis from the sach dying off. That said, it should still sour up just fine even if you transfer it to secondary.

 

[sweetcell]

as microbus said, you'll want to crank down the IBUs to around 10. use a recipe calculator to figure that out.

you'll get more sour and funk if you skip the original yeast and use only Roesalare. pitch the Consecration dregs from the start, too.

i would put it in secondary, mostly to cut down on headspace. ferment in a 6.5 gal carboy (or bucket) then rack to a 5 gallon carboy that you fill up to the neck. personally, i try to rack cleanly and leave the cake behind. there will still be yeast in suspension that will fall out and chances are good you'll being some along anyways.

 

[fermentology]

i would put it in secondary, mostly to cut down on headspace. ferment in a 6.5 gal carboy (or bucket) then rack to a 5 gallon carboy that you fill up to the neck. personally, i try to rack cleanly and leave the cake behind. there will still be yeast in suspension that will fall out and chances are good you'll being some along anyways.

I don't think racking is necessary and in fact could lead to more oxidation then the headspace issue. I've left a sour in primary for 20 months before without any signs of acetic acid. There should be a nice layer of CO2 from fermentation to protect it. I also feel that leaving the beer on the yeast cake adds an extra layer of complexity from the Brett feeding off of the dying yeast.

 

[sweetcell]

I don't think racking is necessary and in fact could lead to more oxidation then the headspace issue.

possibly, it would be interesting if someone did an experiment to investigate this. my thinking is that at the end primary, there is plenty of active sacch and brett around to scavenge the oxygen introduced during racking (i forgot to mention that i rack to secondary in the dying days of primary, i rack before activity totally stops). purging the secondary vessel with CO2 before racking helps minimize O2 exposure.

I've left a sour in primary for 20 months before without any signs of acetic acid.

nice!

There should be a nice layer of CO2 from fermentation to protect it.

initially, yes. but bungs and air locks are not air tight. over months, O2 will seep in.

I also feel that leaving the beer on the yeast cake adds an extra layer of complexity from the Brett feeding off of the dying yeast.

the concern that i've read about is that too much dying sacch can overwhelm the brett.

sounds like your technique makes good sour beer. i can certainly vouch for mine. different ways to skin a cat and whatnot...

 

[fermentology]

initially, yes. but bungs and air locks are not air tight. over months, O2 will seep in.

True, they will, but if you think about it, that will happen in secondary too so racking won't eliminate that problem. I think Raj Apte (sp) actually determined that the O2 transmission through a bung was similar to a 55G barrel. I think its a slow transmission that's key because its "fuel" for Brett over its long fermentation period.

 

[cody6173]

What about continuing to add dregs throughout fermentation/aging? Or once fermentation slows should I avoid the oxidation risk?

 

[sweetcell]

that will happen in secondary too so racking won't eliminate that problem.

indeed it will. however in secondary there is very little surface area and next to no headspace (because it's filled all the way up the neck), so O2's has little space to do it's thing. also, as brett slowly continues to ferment it releases CO2, which is all gathered in that small space.

What about continuing to add dregs throughout fermentation/aging? Or once fermentation slows should I avoid the oxidation risk?

i wouldn't do that. once primary is over, you don't want to open the vessel (regardless of whether you stay in primary or rack to secondary). and additional dregs shouldn't be needed. the brett and bugs will stay active for as long as there is food for them. lack of microbes is not really an issue (or it shouldn't be if you pitched enough of them at the outset).

 

[WhamFish]

indeed it will. however in secondary there is very little surface area and next to no headspace (because it's filled all the way up the neck), so O2's has little space to do it's thing. also, as brett slowly continues to ferment it releases CO2, which is all gathered in that small space.


i wouldn't do that. once primary is over, you don't want to open the vessel (regardless of whether you stay in primary or rack to secondary). and additional dregs shouldn't be needed. the brett and bugs will stay active for as long as there is food for them. lack of microbes is not really an issue (or it shouldn't be if you pitched enough of them at the outset).

I agree, every time you add new strains they may have the ability to metabolize something that the current set of strains can not. So your going to reach a new equilibrium for FG which will take more time.

 

[fermentology]

You might also want to check your Consecration batch as well. I'm not positive but I think they switched to bottling with wine yeast.