first shot at wild fermentation

[camneel83]

So I read part of the sticky thread in wild brewing and decided to venture into the unknown. about 9 days ago I went along with brewing as usual and decided to keep a glass full of wort and leave it sitting overnight uncovered. The next morning I covered the thing up with tin foil as prescribed and let it sit and do it's thing. about 2 days later it developed a bubbly whitish krausen and smelled of rotten garbage. I knew it was supposed to be a little funky because of the various bacteria taking hold but man did it smell terrible! Anyway I let it do it's thing and went on vacation. When I got home not only did I discover that my hot water heater exploded but my little sample smelled completely different! It still has a little bit of funk but not repulsive. So this made me feel a lot better about the damn hot water heater (as well as one to many homebrews). The dominating smell is very sweet with an intense tropical fruitish type smell. pretty cool huh?

Anyway as I understand it the yeast don't completely takeover until 2 weeks and it has been about 9 days. I'm going on another 5 day trip and if I'm happy with what I smell and taste when I get back I'll step it up and create something wild!

Anyone experienced with this wild and crazy brewing I will take advice or suggestions on this process. again I read most of the sticky but I'm still open to whatever you might have to suggest since I have no experience with these crazy bugs. man this is fun though!

Cam

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Well, you certainly won't get a belgian sour type of beer, but if it works, good for you. Not many people have access to wild bacteria that will actually taste good.

 

[camneel83]

well I'm still nervous to taste but in a week or so I'll let you know how it goes. right now it smells fruity but we'll see. Still a slight funk

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

The "funk" won't go away because that's the result of the byproducts of bacteria growth. If you're getting a fruity/citrus smell, that may be wild yeast. Do you see a layer of solid white stuff in the bottom? That would most likely be yeast. You can decant the liquid and add fresh wort to see if it referments in a yeast-like manner. If it does, you should have a higher yeast content and less active bacteria. You can continue to decant and add fresh wort until you have a really solid yeast count.

 

[Bensiff]

Any luck on this project?

 

[camneel83]

Well I kinda put that sample off to the side and not do anything with it. As of now it has a strong vinegar smell. Won't be using it now that's for sure. I might give it a shot some other time. Right now it kind of intimidates me. I did see a solid yeast layer on the bottom of the glass before it turned into vinegar. Sorry I kinda gave up on it and left you guys hanging.

 

[FromZwolle]

taste it anyway. i would. and i'm betting if you did a small one gallon batch with an airlock using that yeast you would get much less vinegar in the end.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

taste it anyway. i would. and i'm betting if you did a small one gallon batch with an airlock using that yeast you would get much less vinegar in the end.

Highly doubtful. Acetobacter is a pain in the ass. Once it starts, it will continue to consume every bit of food it can find until it's turned the entire batch into vinegar. It sounds to me like this is the exact stuff that infected the OP's sample, and I'm not suprised.

 

[kopher]

Highly doubtful. Acetobacter is a pain in the ass. Once it starts, it will continue to consume every bit of food it can find until it's turned the entire batch into vinegar. It sounds to me like this is the exact stuff that infected the OP's sample, and I'm not suprised.

Really? I thought acetobacter was in most lambics, and definitely in flanders reds and whatnot, and they don't (fully) take over...or is that because acetobacter doesn't come into the scene until there's very little sugar left?

 

[dwarven_stout]

You could always pour off the liquid and wash the yeast cake in the sample with chlorine dioxide to kill off the bacteria, then referment in fresh wort and see what you get.

Really? I thought acetobacter was in most lambics, and definitely in flanders reds and whatnot, and they don't (fully) take over...or is that because acetobacter doesn't come into the scene until there's very little sugar left?

It's rarely in lambics, but essential in a flanders red. All of those beers are blended, though- they can mix a small portion of an acetic barrel with the main batch to get the vinegar character in proper proportions.

On the homebrew scale, it's far, far better imho to just add a splash of vinegar (or a previous acetic batch, pasturized) to taste during aging or bottling than it is to mess around with acetobactor. I have a couple gallons of a porter that I got from a friend sitting around for just this purpose.

 

[ryane]

By limiting oxygen you limit acetobacter, so an airlock would do as Fromme said, it would severely limit the production of vinegar in a new batch

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

By limiting oxygen you limit acetobacter, so an airlock would do as Fromme said, it would severely limit the production of vinegar in a new batch

I'm not sure how much I trust that info. You could be right, and probably are. I don't know a whole lot about the science behind bacteria and brewing, I just brew beer I enjoy drinking.

That said...the one batch that I had infected with acetobacter progressively got worse. I noticed the sour/vinegar flavor at bottling time. Decided to keg it instead of risk bottle bombs. I sealed the keg and let it sit at room temp for six months. I would pull sample from the keg every few weeks to check on it and it continued to get worse. I ended up dumping the batch after about 7 months because it tasted like straight vinegar at that point.

 

[ryane]

are you sure it was vinegar, lots of times it is easy to confuse extremely sour lactic presence from acetic acid

Also, if oxygen is removed from the equation acetic acid aka vinegar CANNOT be produced, as O2 is required to form vinegar, so the fact that your keg got more sour under pressure it is unlikely that it was from acetobacter

 

[camneel83]

Well I think I might just toss this sample. It really does look pretty nasty. I just have to many beers to brew and to little money to give up to chance. don't worry though. I will give this another chance. I'm just a little strapped for cash at the moment and any beer I do produce will be a sure thing. I just need to get one of those smaller 3 gallon fermentors to do some experimenting.

By the way, I had a buddy of mine smell the sample cause I was excited about the smell this thing did produce (tropical funk) and right away he said, "wow, that smells like vinegar." Sure enough I hadn't touched this sample in a while and I took a wiff and it smelled very, very vinegary. It didn't smell bad though. Smells just like balsamic vinegar. But not really something I want to just throw in my beer and it's got some sort of weird bubbly ring surrounding the rim of the glass. Just looks freaky. But prior to this weird stuff going on it really had some promising signs.

So next time I do this here is what I'm going to do and tell me if I should do something different:

1. take a sample of my second runnings and put it in a glass

2. put that glass outside over night with some cheese cloth covering it to prevent particles from entering.

3. bring it inside and cover it with foil and allow the wild yeast to take over in approximately 2 weeks.

4. decant the "beer" and make starters to isolate the wild yeast in the sample. Which should hopefully get rid of the nasty garbage sent produced by the bacteria prior to the wild yeast taking over