First Post & Similar Sour Note in Commercial Beers

[theDeutscher]

Hello, friends! I've been brewing for about a year now and have to say that this forum has been my #1 resource for brewing information since I've started. There's almost no topic that hasn't been covered in some way or other here and I'm happy to say that this is my first post mug and wanted to ask about something I haven't found much information on.

I recently brewed an "English Wheat" for a buddy, inspired by Goose Island 312 Urban Wheat. When drinking their 312 to get ideas for a recipe, I noticed a very familiar characteristic in this beer that keeps showing up in commercial beer after commercial beer I drink. It's almost gotten to a point that whenever I detect it, it's all I can taste. The characteristic is a sour, very slightly salty taste. Other beers I've tasted this in are:

Rogue Dead Guy Ale
Stone Arrogant Bastard
Stone IPA
Victory Hop Devil

Has anyone else detected this? I haven't tasted this characteristic in any of my homebrews and, when looking at ingredients on these breweries websites, I couldn't find any similarities between the beers I've tasted it in. I initially thought that it could have just been intense hoppiness until I tasted it in the 312, which only comes in at 20 IBUs. I then looked to the yeast. Most Rogue enthusiasts know that they use their Pacman yeast. Stone uses a "proprietary" English strain. I have no idea what Goose Island or Victory uses. Has anyone heard what yeast these breweries might use? Could this sour note be a similar yeast? I also have had to dust off a few of these bottles before. Is this what oxidation tastes like?

 

[BigB]

Oxidation is more like chewing on a piece of cardboard. Tear off a corner of a box and chew on it for a bit... then you will have a basis for comparison. I can't speculate as to the flavor you are perceiving from the beers you listed as I have only had the Arrogant Bastard.

 

[theDeutscher]

Me: (looking around the room)
Wife: What are you doing?
Me: I'm looking for a piece of cardboard.
Wife: Why?
Me: ... Because I need to chew it.
Wife: Why are you going to chew a piece of cardboard?
Me: (silence)
Wife: (still looking glaring at me waiting for an answer)

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

i'm guessing what you're tasting is yeast in suspension. all those beers you listed have visible yeast floating in the beer and the flavor you describe sounds like the tart flavor floating yeast can impart on a brew.

 

[BigB]

Me: (looking around the room)
Wife: What are you doing?
Me: I'm looking for a piece of cardboard.
Wife: Why?
Me: ... Because I need to chew it.
Wife: Why are you going to chew a piece of cardboard?
Me: (silence)
Wife: (still looking glaring at me waiting for an answer)

LMAO! They will never understand our obsessions!

 

[heferly]

I know they use torrified wheat in 312, not sure of the others....goose island also tends to use english yeasts in most of their beers. Either way, I think wheat will tend to give a tangy flavor, imo.

 

[theDeutscher]

Yeah, I wish my wife liked beer more but she's just not a big drinker. She's a good sport though and goes to beer festivals and such with my buddies and I. The bright side is I usually have a DD and more homebrew.

Nordeast, you make an interesting point. I guess I never noticed but Goose Island does say that they don't filter the 312. Are you saying that I have an uncanny ability to detect bottle-conditioned beers? That would be sweet. I'm not sure about the other breweries, though. I didn't see any signs of non-filtering but I guess it's hard to tell. I'm going to keep building this list as I find beers that I can taste it in.

 

[theDeutscher]

Brooklyn Brown Ale added to the list tonight.

Brooklyn Brown Ale
Goose Island 312 Urban Wheat
Rogue Dead Guy Ale
Stone Arrogant Bastard
Stone IPA
Victory Hop Devil

 

[weirdboy]

Oxidation is more like chewing on a piece of cardboard. Tear off a corner of a box and chew on it for a bit... then you will have a basis for comparison. I can't speculate as to the flavor you are perceiving from the beers you listed as I have only had the Arrogant Bastard.

Oxidation can also be vinous or sherry-like quality. See, for example, the style guidelines for Old Ale.

 

[unionrdr]

What precisely is the flavor you're tasting? That'd narrow it down a bit.

 

[arg]

The fact that you had to dust off the bottles raises a few questions about where you're getting these beers and what hell they may have been through before getting to your glass.

I stopped buying beer from a few different shops because all of them tasted very similar, in a completely horrible and ruined way. The difference in taste would be there but it quickly faded to this off-flavor I couldn't place.

I blamed the handling of the beers. In fact, I accidentally bought a Stone Levitation six-pack that was almost 2 years old from one of these shops. It was probably sitting out in the ambient sunlight, under the fluorescent lights at room temp for that entire time. (Lesson learned!!!) It was undrinkable from the first sip. Try some of those beers from another source and see if they're different, then take another look at your list.

 

[theDeutscher]

The flavor is a tart/sour, musty lemon taste. You can smell it in the aroma and taste it, too. The 312 and Hop Devil I bought at a beer cave here in Hicksville, Ohio (Yes, I said Hicksville. You may start your jokes). The Brooklyn Brown Ale I bought at a beer cave in Antwerp, Ohio. Then, the Dead Guy and two Stone brews I bought at a liquor store in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I just looked at the Hop Devil expiration date... January 2011. Epic fail! Does anyone care that they are selling beer that is a year past it's expiration date, seriously. Still not completely sure the taste I am perceiving is staling, but that's my #1 suspect right now. Has anyone else experience this sort of thing with expired beer before???