first partial mash

[unionrdr]

Well,it's day two & no visible fermentation at all. Might just go to JW Dover & get a new packet of US-05 to pitch. Don't want the wort going moldy or other. Damn,never had this problem before.

 

[unionrdr]

Just took a look through the airlock grommet hole. Also took SG sample. OG was 1.044,now 1.034. But by taking a peek,I see some foamy,large yeast rafts...maybe mixed with some cold break by the look of it.
Seems like it knocked off 10 points before going belly up. The wort still smells sweet though,so it's likely OK. JW Dover opens at 10am,so I'm gunna get another packet of US-05 to get it going again before it goes bad. My thoughts anyway...?...
It's still cloudy/silty as well. Taste is unusually good & clean,but just a bit sweet. All cascade made for some nice bittering with the flavor already. At least that's cool. Just need to jump start it to keep it that way.

 

[freisste]

Not totally sure I understand everything you have described, but it sounds a lot like you pitched your yeast and two days later the gravity dropped about 1/3 of the way from start to finish. (Starting at 1.044, I expect you to drop to 1.005-1.010.)

What makes you think there is an issue? Sorry if I am misunderstanding the concern.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,my quick check thermometer went south,so I had no way to tell temp of rw-hydration water. Too cool or too hot & dry yeast cells die off. It was just below very warm to almost hot when I pitched the yeast in that 1.5C of water. 22 minutes later,I pitched it. Forgot to check temp strip on FV. Was 72F by morning. That was yesterday.Today,still no action,& the yeast was floating on the top with some foam.
So by the time I got back from JW Dover with the yeast & had lunch,the floaters had sank & about 1/2" of foam was present. I pitched the dry yeast packet anyway,stiring it in with a sanitized paddle & re-sealed. What yeast was left alive wasn't doing much,never a bubble. Pitching yeast cream,the blow off should've been goin nuts. It always did before.

 

[terrapinj]

walk away from the fermenter and let it do it's thing

yeast don't always behave the same way, you have active fermentation going on - you only risk contaminating it, oxidizing etc if you keep opening it up or add more yeast

 

[unionrdr]

This was a new event for me. Never had these problems up to this point. I'm sure the extra yeast will be fine,as the cell count on the 1st pitch was pretty low. It just seemed from experience that it might take a little too long to get going normally again. Didn't wanna take the chance it would turn south. I only openned it once to re-pitch. I'm not one for openning & worrying. But this one just acted like it was bad from the start.
But yeah,it's on it's own now...

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I agree with Terrapin and Freisste, it sounds like it's fermenting just fine. It's just not going b@lls out or anything. It's a third of the way done in ~a day or so, that sounds like it's right on schedule for a 5 day fermentation, which is what seems the norm with 05.

 

[unionrdr]

When we used 05 before,it was starting the bloop bloop by 7am. Machine gunning by lunch time. Nada here,so I thought this must be my turn for something out of the usual to go wrong. I'm pretty sure it was about done,stalled,etc,since the top was clearing up & most of the yeast was clumped up & floating. It didn't look like it was going to continue,so I pitched again. I don't think it'll hurt anything,since that 1.044OG should winf up between 1.008-1.010. But the aroma & flavor are def hell & gone better than extract alone. And the cascade bittering does seem to add to the same as flavor & aroma additions. Man,what a difference.

 

[zeg]

You may or may not be ok, but I'd go ahead and repitch. It's unlikely to hurt anything as long as you're careful.

In the future, if you can't be sure of the rehydration temp, maybe just dry-pitch instead?

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Now, you know that bloop bloop (or lack thereof) is meaningless. From the sounds of it, the clumping, dropping and foam rising, that everythings going as normal. Yeast will congregate in small colonies on top as they reproduce, the colonies will then drop into the wort and go at it, causing the krausen to form.
I think man, that since the PM was a new process for you, you're way overthinking this now, during fermentation. I know that you're usually very much an RDW guy, and it seems that you're really stressing this one. I totally understand, I'm exactly the same way, but do yourself a favor and relax. At least until primary is over. I hate to see ya so worried over what seems like, if anything, a mildly delayed start to fermentation buddy. RDW and HAHB (or a Stroh's and a shot of vodka).

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah man,we usually pitch 05 & the like dry. But I thought since cooper's ale yeast takes to re-hydrating so well,this one should be even better. I'm wondering if 05 & the like aren't as hardy as the cooper's? Lost a lot of cells this time. Kinda like my 1st brew where I pitched cooper's 7g packet dry & high. Almost no visible action. But this is the 1st time the yeast went belly up & krausen dissipated. I guess I freeked out. Goin to the next level (partial mash) is a lot like bein a noob again. Cool but forboding,you know?
By the by,I pitched the 2nd packet dry. JW Dover has some darn fresh yeast. The date on it was April 2014. And at $3.75,it wasn't too bad to do a 2nd one. Maybe the 05 is better off pitched dry? It was always pitch around 7-8pm,bubbling by 7am kinda thing. that's the basis for my concern,beyond my usual re-hydrate being a bit quicker & more vigorous...

 

[unionrdr]

Nordeast,ya def busted me this time. Point taken. I'm usually not overly concerned,but the old ways were comfortable at this point. And it has been some 3-4 months since I last brewed 2 batches. New burners changed my timing drasticaly too.
It's like all the reading I did pales in comparison to actual practice. Then some things go wrong that are out of the usual, &...Oh well,next time gadget...next tiiiime...

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I've never use Cooper's, aside from what I've harvested from Sparkling Ale (Coop's Gold?). But I can tell you that 05 is a beast, and quite reliable. I've both rehydrated and pitched dry with it, and the only diff. was in lag time, both ways get great apparent attenuation and a clean fermentation.
Now that you've got that second pack in there, there's no need at all to stress. Especially with a ~10 pt drop in SG. You're all good buddy!!

Edit: saw the last post. You're definitely just feeling like this is all new since the PM part was. Just remember that you've made lots of great beers, and there's no reason that this one'll be any different.

 

[terrapinj]

visible signs of fermentation doesn't always mean the yeast are healthier or doing better

a longer lag stage isn't necessarily a bad thing and is common when using pure 02 - it could also be a result of having a more nutrient rich environment since you did a partial mash

you're way over thinking this one - if the temps are right there is no harm in rehydrating if you are sanitary - pitching dry doesn't guarantee lower cell count either based on a few studies but it isn't the recommended way of doing it and could lead to lower cell count.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Yeah, Terrapin, I was just thinking about that. My AG brews don't kick off nearly as fast as my extracts do, in general. Maybe the longer lag is due to a more nutrient rich environment, the yeast absorbing the nutrients and o2 for a spell before reproducing and going at the sugar.

 

[zeg]

I'm becoming rather glad I bounced to PM right away. I did two extract brews, a mead, and a cider, then jumped onto PM. This way I never got comfortable with the extract.

 

[unionrdr]

Hmmmm...you two might be onto something here. I remember that thread we were all in yesterday about this subject,& the posted excerpts about yeast dry,re-hydrated,with wort or water.
I must agree that my extract ales did take off faster with re-hydrated cooper's yeast. About the same amount of time 05 takes pitched dry. I didn't think about the PM being richer in fermentables vsun-fermentables in extract. I wonder if that's the difference I freaked about & didn't stop to realize? Never thought that'd make a difference.
And yeah zeg,I guess I did indeed get comfortable with recombinent extract brews. I must've finally hit critical mass?...

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Think about the difference in the amount of break material you noticed. Proteins, nutrients, etc., that's what that is. Makes sense that it'd give the yeasties something more to do before they get at the sugars.
Either way, gladly your beer's fermenting away now.

 

[unionrdr]

No bubbling yet in the blow off,but it def picked up some. The hot break was the quickest,most violent to date. Geez. It came on like hell fire through dry brush,15 seconds or so later,it went down slowly about 1/4" then literally POOF! gone,just that quick. That was a big surprise. Picture me standin there with a 2' paddle stirrin like mad,& rapidly loosing ground. Aaaaw shnikeys...thar she blooows! Nope,just wjhen I thought I was in for a mess,it just went poof & was gone like a genie in a huff.
I was surprised to find the gravity had dropped at all this morning. Didn't expect that. Glad I was wrong,but also that I added another packet. The survivors of the hot hydrate had to be pretty weak & few in numbers judging from what I saw in there this morning.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,I figured the surest way to need a blow off is to remove it & install an airlock filled with cheap vodka. It's bubbling slowly atm. Now watch...Later on I'll witness beersuvious. It has been fermenting slow but sure. Just never had US-05 act like this. Oh well,it's all good now.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,today is the 2 week mark in the fermenter. The 1st FG sample clocked in at 1.013. Range is listed as 1.010-1,012,so it's darn close. But it's still silty/cloudy. The fine stuff is still circulating around,even in the hydrometer tube. Tastes like green beer now with malty/yeasty aroma. But not at all offensive. The hops taste more like they do at this point with my extract beers. No off flavors or smells,thank God. Straw gold color from the silt in the hydrometer tube. Thinking of trying crystal 40L in place of the 10L next time. May replace half the 4lb of 2 row with 2 lb of marris otter as well. I think it needs a tad more malt flavor & color to be closer to my extract APA/IPA malt profile.

 

[J187]

Sounds like you hit your OG, hit your FG and made a good beer. I'd give it another few days if not a week to see if it settles more. Then carb it up and taste it. You may find that you alter the changes you are planning to make next time after you've tasted it carbed and conditioned.

 

[J187]

I had to rescue my PM yesterday with DME because I missed my OG by a lot. Not sure why either, it would have to been RIDICULOUSLY low efficiency to have missed by as much as I did - like 20% efficiency. Glad you had a better result.

 

[unionrdr]

Me too,being my 1st pm. I'm hoping to get it down to 1.010. The OG range was 1.042-1.046,I got 1.044. And I used a mini food prcessor to crush the grains. But I did see in another thread to use a fine crush for biab. So maybe I got lucky on that part & guess right. Yeah,I'll have to taste it to make a final dicision on aroma,flavor,& color. But I do like the idea of some UK marris otter. I wonder how efficiency is computed?...

 

[unionrdr]

Well,here we are 8 days later,& It only dropped one point to FG1.012. & it still is very cloudy. Tastes good though,no yeast flavor. Hop flavors getting quite good,very fresh tasting. I'll give it till friday or saturday morning to settle more before it has to get bottled to be in time for thanksgiving.
I'm thinking of using wirlfloc or the like next time. I have no place to cold crash,so I may have to just bottle settle this batch.

 

[J187]

Union, I did a partial mash last night with a 10 gallon cooler. The big difference is, for the first time, I dunk sparged. MAN, do I recommend dunk sparging!! It was infinitely easier and I nailed my 75% efficiency goal right on the nose. I didn't use a finer crush for BIAB, because I don't really want higher than 75% efficiency - I hope to be right around there for everything, including all grain and make the system repeatable so I have better control over my calculations. What I did was heat water to about 175 and dumped that into my cooler. I waited for the strike water to cool to 161 - this was an easy way of preheating my cooler and getting my strike water to temp in one simple step. I added the 5lbs grain which dropped my temp to 151. I let the cooler sit open for a min til it dropped to 150 and closed it up. 40 Min later, I started heating sparge water in my kettle (now freed up since I mashed in the cooler). I had mashed with about 2 gallons - A little more than 1.5q/lb. The sparge water I heated was 2 gallons (expecting to lose about 1/2 gallon to the grain and given me a 3.5 gallon boil vol.) 1 hour later, I was at 148 degrees in the mash tun. I withdrew the bag and set it on my big strainer for a few min to drain. (I like this better than a collander because it's got a long handle and rests across almost any diameter pot/bucket/etc). I then took the bag and dunked it into the 168 deg sparge water and allowed it to sit about 10 min. I then put it into the strainer over the BK and waited about 5 min for it to drain. I then combined the two worts into the BK and measured the volume - I had exactly the anticipated 3.5 gallons. Took a gravity sample and I nailed the expected preboil volume minus the extract on the nose! I then went on with my boil. The dunk sparge was great... MUCH better BIAB conversion than I got trying to batch sparge before. I did use whirflock, so we'll see how it comes out. Obviously BIAB without recirculating is going to be a little more cloudy, but small trade off IMO for what it enables us to do.

 

[unionrdr]

Say J,have you done PM before & did you bottle or keg? I bottle,& if I do get a batch that's slightly misty,whether from yeast action or a pound of wheat DME in the mix,it always settles out in 1-3 days...rarely 7.
This partial mash got a fine crush (I think I went overboard)that still had some chunkiness to it. I just took a 2nd Fg sample,& it's not silty,but cloudy/hazy. Looks like the really fine stuff is still in suspension. I was hoping it'd settle out in the bottles like my extract batches did when they had that lil bit of haziness to them. What's your experience with haziness from the crush?

 

[J187]

I bottle. I haven't yet bottled my first PM. I have heard from others, that the lack of the recirculation step certainly leads to a cloudiness - or, more of a cloudiness anyway. That's the one criticism of BIAB I have heard. Actually, I guess that since I mashed in a cooler, I technically could have performed a quasi vorlauf step with the spout. I don't think the cloudiness will bother me in my first beer since it was a belgian dubbel. My last was an Irish Red and I'm not sure how that will be affected.

 

[unionrdr]

I was hoping that the very cloudy/misty stuff would settle in the bottles like extract beers do in my experiences thus far. I'm gunna order some five star super floc tomorrow for next time. It's added like the last 5 minutes of the boil for when it goes into primary to settle that fine stuff out even better (protiens & chill haze stuff too it says). Five star has been great stuff so far,so I'll be trying that from midwest.
Well,gotta take boys to library,be bake in awhile...

 

[J187]

I have heard from some BIAB folks that certain cloudiness will subside after a couple weeks of bottle conditioning. There was also a post on here where a guy says that by taking his dry bag full of grain and shaking the loose flour, fine particles out before putting it into the mash, he gets clearer beer. Haven't tried this, but again, I choose not to grind finer for BIAB than I would for say a regular AG session. I use the mill at the LHBS and grind everything the same.