First NEIPA

[hooterjbrew]

Going to brew this in the next two weeks and would like to get input on it. I feel comfortably with the grain bill but I'm wondering what peoples suggestions are for the water and the ferm temps. I have a ferm chamber with the ability to change temps how ever I need to. Beer smith calculated ferm 67 degrees the entire 14 days. Thoughts

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.51 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.51 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.01 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 04 Jun 2017

Equipment: Blich10g/Cooler MLT 5g
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 90.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Prepare for Brewing
Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 9.14 gal
Mash Water Acid:
Mash or Steep Grains

Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs Pale Ale, Golden Promise®™ (Simpsons) (2.5 SRM) Grain 1 43.5 %
5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 43.5 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 4.3 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.3 %
4.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.2 %
4.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 6 2.2 %
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 15.38 qt of water at 170.4 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge Water Acid:
Batch sparge with 4 steps (Drain mash tun , 1.77gal, 1.77gal, 1.77gal) of 168.0 F water
Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.51 gal
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.050 SG

Steeped Hops
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min Hop 7 14.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min Hop 8 16.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min Hop 9 14.3 IBUs

Estimated Post Boil Vol: 6.51 gal and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.060 SG
Cool and Transfer Wort
Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 5.00 gal
Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume

Fermentation Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.0 pkg London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) [124.21 ml] Yeast 10 -

Measure Actual Original Gravity _______ (Target: 1.060 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume _______ (Target: 5.00 gal)
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 5.00 gal

Fermentation
04 Jun 2017 - Primary Fermentation (14.00 days at 67.0 F ending at 67.0 F)
Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg

Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

Measure Final Gravity: _________ (Estimate: 1.015 SG)
Date Bottled/Kegged: 18 Jun 2017 - Carbonation: Keg with 12.54 PSI

Thanks for the help in advance

 

[Yooper]

You're not adding any boil hops at all?

 

[oylerck]

I would mash a little lower. Looks sweet to me.

I also would agree hops look weak. Don't add anymore dry hop, but maybe flame out and more hop stand. Maybe .5oz at 60 minutes.

When you hop stand, do you know if it will be at flameout or 170f or less?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Looks similar to a recipe I did in April, except I had no honey malt and I had 10 min, 5, min and FO hop additions. It turned out well, but I've learned after that batch and the following, that I really need something to add a little dankness to my NEIPAs. The first batch had CTX and I'll likely use that or something like it in pretty much every IPA I make going forward.

Bottom line advice: some late boil/FO hops and, if it's your thing, a fourth hop variety that adds more than citrus/fruit to the flavor profile.

 

[Schemy]

Going to brew this in the next two weeks and would like to get input on it. I feel comfortably with the grain bill but I'm wondering what peoples suggestions are for the water and the ferm temps. I have a ferm chamber with the ability to change temps how ever I need to. Beer smith calculated ferm 67 degrees the entire 14 days. Thoughts

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.51 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.51 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.01 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 04 Jun 2017

Equipment: Blich10g/Cooler MLT 5g
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 90.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Prepare for Brewing
Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 9.14 gal
Mash Water Acid:
Mash or Steep Grains

Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs Pale Ale, Golden Promise®™ (Simpsons) (2.5 SRM) Grain 1 43.5 %
5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 43.5 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 4.3 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.3 %
4.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.2 %
4.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 6 2.2 %
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 15.38 qt of water at 170.4 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge Water Acid:
Batch sparge with 4 steps (Drain mash tun , 1.77gal, 1.77gal, 1.77gal) of 168.0 F water
Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.51 gal
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.050 SG

Steeped Hops
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min Hop 7 14.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min Hop 8 16.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min Hop 9 14.3 IBUs

Estimated Post Boil Vol: 6.51 gal and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.060 SG
Cool and Transfer Wort
Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 5.00 gal
Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume

Fermentation Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.0 pkg London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) [124.21 ml] Yeast 10 -

Measure Actual Original Gravity _______ (Target: 1.060 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume _______ (Target: 5.00 gal)
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 5.00 gal

Fermentation
04 Jun 2017 - Primary Fermentation (14.00 days at 67.0 F ending at 67.0 F)
Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg

Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

Measure Final Gravity: _________ (Estimate: 1.015 SG)
Date Bottled/Kegged: 18 Jun 2017 - Carbonation: Keg with 12.54 PSI

Thanks for the help in advance

That's how I do it with great success.

 

[hooterjbrew]

You're not adding any boil hops at all?

I didn't plan on adding any boil hops....if any I might do some at 15min and a light toss of galaxy. 60min hops increase the IBUs tremendously and I'm not after that. Thanks!

 

[hooterjbrew]

I would mash a little lower. Looks sweet to me.

I also would agree hops look weak. Don't add anymore dry hop, but maybe flame out and more hop stand. Maybe .5oz at 60 minutes.

When you hop stand, do you know if it will be at flameout or 170f or less?

You would mash lower than 152? I was going to do flameout and let steep/whirlpool for 30min. I may take advice from another poster and add a 4th hop variety though. thanks!

 

[hooterjbrew]

Looks similar to a recipe I did in April, except I had no honey malt and I had 10 min, 5, min and FO hop additions. It turned out well, but I've learned after that batch and the following, that I really need something to add a little dankness to my NEIPAs. The first batch had CTX and I'll likely use that or something like it in pretty much every IPA I make going forward.

Bottom line advice: some late boil/FO hops and, if it's your thing, a fourth hop variety that adds more than citrus/fruit to the flavor profile.

Thanks for the input! I may try the 15min hop addition or adding a 4th variety. Thanks again!

 

[hooterjbrew]

That's how I do it with great success.

Awesome! Glad to hear it and hope I have the same success as you. Any pics from a similar brew? Did you ferment temp controlled?

 

[Dcioni]

Seems really low on the qty of hops for a NE-style. Dry hop looks good but only 3oz FO/whirlpool seems light for the style. I don't find a ton of bitterness from 5 or even 10 min hop addition of aroma hops like the ones you're using. My suggestion is to at least double the hops and add them in the boil (even if late). Everything else sounds delicious though!!!

 

[Redtab78]

Seems really low on the qty of hops for a NE-style. Dry hop looks good but only 3oz FO/whirlpool seems light for the style. I don't find a ton of bitterness from 5 or even 10 min hop addition of aroma hops like the ones you're using. My suggestion is to at least double the hops and add them in the boil (even if late). Everything else sounds delicious though!!!

Just asking, but what exactly defines "the style"? Most other beers we all make follow the bcjp, and there isnt a "NEIPA" style in the bcjp, so are you saying this based off other NEIPA recipes you have seen? I ask because in this months zymurgy, there is an article about NEIPA, and in that there is a few recipie with 1 of them only calling for 2oz in the boil, 1oz in the hop stand, and 4oz dry hop, while the other calls for .5oz at 60, and 3oz whirlpool, with 6oz dry hopped... so the whirlpool that the op stated seems right on point with that article minus some small bittering addition....to me the only thing that really sets an IPA out as a NEIPA is very little bittering and more of the aroma aditions with some flaked oats/wheat. I almost feel like you can make any IPA into a NEIPA with adjusting the time that the hops are added (compile all additions the the flame out) hop stand for 20 min at about 160, and then spread out dry hopping from 2 days into fermentation till about 3 days after fermentation is complete.....well that and the yeast used, but then agai , thats debatable as well.


To the op, i would suggest .5oz of a good clean neutral bitting hop, perhaps maybe magnum or nugget or perhaps a 5ml hopshot at 60, just to get the ibu to give a decent balance with the malts stated i think i would target about 40ibu, knowing that the whirlpool addition steeping will provide just a little bit, it will not be enough and i think you will end up with an unbalanced beer that while it may be hazy and "juicy" it will not taste very good, as other have mentioned, mash a little lowe, id target about 148 area, but thats just my opinion.

 

[hooterjbrew]

Seems really low on the qty of hops for a NE-style. Dry hop looks good but only 3oz FO/whirlpool seems light for the style. I don't find a ton of bitterness from 5 or even 10 min hop addition of aroma hops like the ones you're using. My suggestion is to at least double the hops and add them in the boil (even if late). Everything else sounds delicious though!!!

Right on...Ill check in to doing the same additions at either 5-10 boil

 

[hooterjbrew]

Just asking, but what exactly defines "the style"? Most other beers we all make follow the bcjp, and there isnt a "NEIPA" style in the bcjp, so are you saying this based off other NEIPA recipes you have seen? I ask because in this months zymurgy, there is an article about NEIPA, and in that there is a few recipie with 1 of them only calling for 2oz in the boil, 1oz in the hop stand, and 4oz dry hop, while the other calls for .5oz at 60, and 3oz whirlpool, with 6oz dry hopped... so the whirlpool that the op stated seems right on point with that article minus some small bittering addition....to me the only thing that really sets an IPA out as a NEIPA is very little bittering and more of the aroma aditions with some flaked oats/wheat. I almost feel like you can make any IPA into a NEIPA with adjusting the time that the hops are added (compile all additions the the flame out) hop stand for 20 min at about 160, and then spread out dry hopping from 2 days into fermentation till about 3 days after fermentation is complete.....well that and the yeast used, but then agai , thats debatable as well.


To the op, i would suggest .5oz of a good clean neutral bitting hop, perhaps maybe magnum or nugget or perhaps a 5ml hopshot at 60, just to get the ibu to give a decent balance with the malts stated i think i would target about 40ibu, knowing that the whirlpool addition steeping will provide just a little bit, it will not be enough and i think you will end up with an unbalanced beer that while it may be hazy and "juicy" it will not taste very good, as other have mentioned, mash a little lowe, id target about 148 area, but thats just my opinion.

Thanks!! And I think you are spot on about the "style" NEIPA....I think the addition of oats, late hop additions to lower the IBU's and the yeast strain is what separates this "style". I also think it is a very wide open brew that people can adjust to fit their taste buds depending on hop variety and addition timing. Thats all of my very little brewing experience opine as well lol. I appreciate you input and enlighten me on the lower mash temp...excuse my lack of knowledge but thats why I'm here. Thanks again.

 

[Schemy]

Awesome! Glad to hear it and hope I have the same success as you. Any pics from a similar brew? Did you ferment temp controlled?

I don't have any pics, I'm lame like that. I ferment in my basement at ambient (62-65) temps. I usually use WLP007 though, don't like 1318 much.

 

[Redtab78]

Thanks!! And I think you are spot on about the "style" NEIPA....I think the addition of oats, late hop additions to lower the IBU's and the yeast strain is what separates this "style". I also think it is a very wide open brew that people can adjust to fit their taste buds depending on hop variety and addition timing. Thats all of my very little brewing experience opine as well lol. I appreciate you input and enlighten me on the lower mash temp...excuse my lack of knowledge but thats why I'm here. Thanks again.

Just think like this, lower mash temps will obtain a dryer finish, while higher temps will obtain a sweeter finish....or a "light" body comes from lower mash142-146, while a heavier body will come from higher temps 155_158.....knowing that, you have to imagine the finished beer, do you want it more maltier and sweeter or would you perfer it more on the lighter and dryier side? For this NEIPA style, i would shoot for something between dry and medium, thats why i suggest a target of about 148....i find that to be a decent balance.....if you wanna get really creative (assum8ng your using a cooler style mash tun) mash in at about 1.4 qts per pound at 140, draw off 1.5 gal of wort add another 1 gallon of water, and bring it up to 175, then add that back in to bring the total temp up to 148....its a decoction mash (of sorts), but thats the great thing about homebrewing you can do whatever you want and enjoy the process.....thats of couse NOT NEEDED, but i like to play around some.

I have been doing a similar mash technique, and it has turned my regular recipies into a whole different beer, and i must say, i perfer EVERYTHING boiled at 90 min instead of 60, and doing that small step coupled with the boil time has been providing amazing results. In fact i did 1 recipe using a standard infusion mash at 148 with a 60 min boil, and then that decoction type mash with a 90 min boil, and of the 4 people that tried it seemed to have all picked out the latter and like it much better....this was with identical grain bills, water, hops, and yeast strain (wyeast 1968).


By no means am i sayi g you should do that for this beer, just simply stating that minor variances in processes can have a major effect in the final outcome.....so keep that im mind, when you decide on when to add which hop and what temp to hop stand at, as well as what mash temp you decide on.

 

[hooterjbrew]

Just think like this, lower mash temps will obtain a dryer finish, while higher temps will obtain a sweeter finish....or a "light" body comes from lower mash142-146, while a heavier body will come from higher temps 155_158.....knowing that, you have to imagine the finished beer, do you want it more maltier and sweeter or would you perfer it more on the lighter and dryier side? For this NEIPA style, i would shoot for something between dry and medium, thats why i suggest a target of about 148....i find that to be a decent balance.....if you wanna get really creative (assum8ng your using a cooler style mash tun) mash in at about 1.4 qts per pound at 140, draw off 1.5 gal of wort add another 1 gallon of water, and bring it up to 175, then add that back in to bring the total temp up to 148....its a decoction mash (of sorts), but thats the great thing about homebrewing you can do whatever you want and enjoy the process.....thats of couse NOT NEEDED, but i like to play around some.

I have been doing a similar mash technique, and it has turned my regular recipies into a whole different beer, and i must say, i perfer EVERYTHING boiled at 90 min instead of 60, and doing that small step coupled with the boil time has been providing amazing results. In fact i did 1 recipe using a standard infusion mash at 148 with a 60 min boil, and then that decoction type mash with a 90 min boil, and of the 4 people that tried it seemed to have all picked out the latter and like it much better....this was with identical grain bills, water, hops, and yeast strain (wyeast 1968).


By no means am i sayi g you should do that for this beer, just simply stating that minor variances in processes can have a major effect in the final outcome.....so keep that im mind, when you decide on when to add which hop and what temp to hop stand at, as well as what mash temp you decide on.

I was clear on the light-heavy on mash temps but great way of putting it into perspective with your explanation. I like how you roll and I would love to try different variations of mashing in especially after I attempt the first go then get some collaborative input from others on the outcome. Then make adjustments like you mention and see those outcomes in comparison. I love to keep detailed notes on the session and how it drinks. I think that's how you can stumble on to something you can highly appreciate. Thanks for all the help!

 

[SHAIV]

I've read somewhere that a FWH will smooth the bitterness instead of doing it at 60 min. Maybe a half oz at FWH will give you some ibus

 

[marjen]

I use columbus to bitter all my NE IPAs. I do .25 oz @ 60 and .75 oz @ 10. Thats for 5 gallon batch. Rest of hops are flameout, whirlpool and dry hop. Sometimes I only do columbus at flameout as well and save all the flavor/aroma hops for dry hopping. Had good success with both methods.