First Milk Stout - Adding sugar and lactose?

[jthumphries]

This is my foray into beer making and I want to make a milk stout. I've got a can kit of Black Rock Miners Stout that I will use as a base this time. It says to add 1kg of sugar to the can contents, but if I want to use lactose to make it a sweeter milk stout, do I sub the 1 pound of lactose (for 5 gal batch) for the sugar or add it along with the sugar? If I only use the lactose instead of sugar which most recipes on this forum seem to suggest, what is fermenting since the lactose will not?

 

[spittybug]

No offense intended since we all started somewhere sometime, but your question shows that you really aren't fully aware of what you are about to do. A milk stout is generally not the easiest one to start with.....

The can contains malted barley liquid extract. High in sugars that the yeast will gobble. The additional sugar you are to add is presumably normal cane sugar. This will up the ABV without altering the taste too much. Any lactose you add will NOT be eaten by the yeast since they can't do so. That's why the milk stout remains sweet. The problem is that without understanding how to balance that sweetness with additional hops you will likely get a cloyingly sweet mess.

I presume too you will be bottling? If so, keep in mind a milk stout is a low carbonation style that will come out quite flat. I'm again assuming your kit tells you how to do all of this.... To get a good milk stout (think Left Hand) you would want a good nitro dispensing setup. Without it, your first brew may make you give up on brewing.........

Consider a more "straightforward" Irish red, English brown or something sessionable to get the hang of things....

Just my two cents for starting the hobby off on the right foot.

 

[Calder]

Adding a lb of lactose will probably make it very sweet. If you have to add some, limit yourself to 0.5 lbs. Too many time I've seen people say their Milk Stout is too sweet. I'd actually recommend waiting until you reach FG, tasting, ad hen deciding what to add at bottling.

To answer your question, I'd add it in addition to he recipe ingredients.

I presume too you will be bottling? If so, keep in mind a milk stout is a low carbonation style that will come out quite flat. I'm again assuming your kit tells you how to do all of this.... To get a good milk stout (think Left Hand) you would want a good nitro dispensing setup. Without it, your first brew may make you give up on brewing.........

Since when has a Milk Stout been a 'Nitro' beer. Milk stout is one of the oldest beer styles out there, and there was no nitro 30, 40, 50 years ago.

 

[Joe61]

A milk stout is generally not the easiest one to start with.....

Curious about this comment.

I'm really new to this. A Dunkelweizen carbonating in bottles and a Milk Stout that will probably come of the fermenter and in to a keg early next week. Have no idea if either will even rate as "drinkable."

Both mine were from kits (Brewer's Best). Both were rated "easy" and my LHBS said both were good for a total newbie. Aside from the addition of lactose, the Milk Stout kit recipe wasn't any different than the Dunkel (also rated "easy" on the package).

What would make a Milk Stout kit much harder than another kit?

 

[McKnuckle]

I would brew the kit "as is" for my first time.

That said, to simply answer the question with a minimum of editorializing; do NOT replace the sugar with lactose. Use the sugar as directed. Add the lactose at the end of the boil. It will raise the final gravity of the beer, making it a bit sweeter and with heavier mouthfeel.

I would try 0.5 lb rather than a full lb just to not overwhelmingly change the recipe.

 

[filthyastronaut]

I'd say 2.2 lbs. of sugar is really excessive in the first place. I'd perhaps just add a pound of sugar and .5 lb. of lactose to start with. It will help you calibrate if you want to do milk stouts in the future. 1 lb. of lactose is pretty common for 5 gallon batches, but that depends on the rest of the recipe.

Does your kit have information on what the OG, FG, and alcohol content are supposed to be in the finished product?

 

[spittybug]

Since when has a Milk Stout been a 'Nitro' beer. Milk stout is one of the oldest beer styles out there, and there was no nitro 30, 40, 50 years ago.

It certainly doesn't require nitro, but the benefit of using such is great. The mouthfeel difference between one with and without is pretty impressive. The OP is learning and on his first brew or two. For his own pride and satisfaction I thought he might want to stick to the recipe until he gets more comfortable experimenting with off-recipe changes. No harm intended.

 

[jthumphries]

Thanks for all of the replies and advice. This is my first beer attempt but I've been brewing mead and cider. Just was not sure how much fermentation you would actually get from just the malts and hops in the kit and trying to get sugar content right. Probably should just follow instructions on the can as they seem pretty complete, but I've never been that great at just following directions!
After reading all of the comments, I think I'll follow the can directions and perhaps start with a 0.5lb addition of lactose to see how that does. Don't mind a bit of experimentation and if it comes out completely ruined, it will be a good lesson, but not too discouraging as far as brewing. Since starting with mead, I've found it pretty addictive.
Thanks again everyone.

 

[RM-MN]

The kit you mentioned is easy to brew by just following the directions. The hard part for most of us is waiting long enough for the beer to mature before drinking it. I'd suggest you ferment this cool (low to mid 60's) for a week, then let it come to room temp for another 2 to 4 weeks before bottling. Then if you have patience enough (you've brewed mead, patience should be easy) let the beer sit in the bottles for a couple months to mature. I think you will like the results. Don't be afraid to sample early but be aware that this dark beer gets much better with time. I suspect that it will peak in flavor somewhere between year 1 and 2.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'd use both kinds of sugar, and limit the lactose to 0.5 lb per 5 gallons like others suggested. Yummy.

 

[Queequeg]

replace the sugar with the same weight in Dry light extract, add 0.5lb of lactose. Sugar has no place in a milk stout and is just to keep the cost of the kit down.

 

[jthumphries]

Just an update here - I used the contents of the can kit + 2 pounds of dextrose + 1/2 pound of lactose. I tried a bottle this week at 3 weeks post bottling and the carbonation is just about perfect. The flavor has very little complexity, but I'm hoping that a bit more aging in the bottles might help that. As for the lactose, I would definitely use the full 1 pound per 5 gal batch next time as I wanted a bit more sweetness. The 1/2 pound of lactose in combination with this kit basically only manages to counteract a bit of the bitterness on initial taste with a fairly bitter aftertaste. For those who don't like their milk stouts very sweet, 1/2 pound might work.

 

[Kent88]

Was it this: http://www.blackrock.co.nz/brew-kits/item/25-miners-stout?

I guess you aren't looking for advice anymore. Glad it turned out to your liking. If it isn't as complex as you'd like, maybe next time instead of dextrose you use some dark malt extract.

I experimented with using MCI Stout Malt as the base malt and using debittered black malt (in addition to other malts) and came up with some milk stouts that I like. Something to keep in mind should you want to try doing a mash.

 

[RM-MN]

Just an update here - I used the contents of the can kit + 2 pounds of dextrose + 1/2 pound of lactose. I tried a bottle this week at 3 weeks post bottling and the carbonation is just about perfect. The flavor has very little complexity, but I'm hoping that a bit more aging in the bottles might help that. As for the lactose, I would definitely use the full 1 pound per 5 gal batch next time as I wanted a bit more sweetness. The 1/2 pound of lactose in combination with this kit basically only manages to counteract a bit of the bitterness on initial taste with a fairly bitter aftertaste. For those who don't like their milk stouts very sweet, 1/2 pound might work.

It sounds like your carbonation is right on schedule.
The complexity will come as the stout matures but it will take plenty of patience. I drank all of my first stout before it ever got to its best. Now I leave them sit for 3 months or more for the first sample and from then on I sample one occasionally as I have found that they peak in flavor/complexity at about a year. If you don't already have other beers to drink as you wait for the stout to get really good, now is the time to make one. Something lighter in color will mature much faster.

 

[jthumphries]

Was it this: http://www.blackrock.co.nz/brew-kits/item/25-miners-stout?

I guess you aren't looking for advice anymore. Glad it turned out to your liking. If it isn't as complex as you'd like, maybe next time instead of dextrose you use some dark malt extract.

I experimented with using MCI Stout Malt as the base malt and using debittered black malt (in addition to other malts) and came up with some milk stouts that I like. Something to keep in mind should you want to try doing a mash.

That is the stout kit that I used. I think the other posters are correct, that it will get better with age. If I can be patient enough. I might take your advice as I would like to do my next beer a bit more "from scratch" instead of a kit. I'd like to replicate the best milk stout that I have had so far, Old Yale Screaming Banshee. They list the malts and hops used so I hope to replicate that sometime soon.

 

[chickypad]

I would definitely try a different recipe next time. The specs on that kit as brewed without lactose show 3.7% ABV, 30 IBU, and 42% of the fermentables from sugar. This isn't really one of those big stouts that needs months of aging I think it's more a recipe issue, and I would expect a pretty thin bodied beer without a on of malt flavor. Maybe it'll get better but I wouldn't expect too much. Check the recipe database for some ideas, if you need help converting any of the recipies to extract folks can help with that.