First Lager??

[mrcej23]

I have several all grain ales under my belt and have been wanting to make my first lager for a while now, since I now have the temp control to do it. After trying the Weihenstephan/Sierra Nevada festbier collab a couple days ago and loving it, I've decided I'd like to do a similar Oktoberfest. Not amber like a Märzen, rather a deep golden color. Seemed to me like a basic German light lager with a lot more malt character.

I'm only hesitant to doing this style for a couple reasons: 1. I see a lot of recipes calling for a step or decoction mash (I only have a cooler for a mash tun and decoction seems complicated) and 2. I know that lagers traditionally take anywhere from a month to several months for completion and I'm just not willing to wait that long.

So, is the step/decoction mash really necessary, or can this be done with single infusion? Secondly, has anyone here had success turning a lager around in 2-3 weeks max?

I'd also love recommendations for recipes. I found this recipe in an article and it seems interesting but also says to do a decoction mash: http://www.beersmith.com/Recipes2/recipe_304.htm

 

[FloppyKnockers]

So, is the step/decoction mash really necessary, or can this be done with single infusion?

Secondly, has anyone here had success turning a lager around in 2-3 weeks max?

1) IMO, single infusion would be just fine.

2) That's kind of a tall order since a lager has to, well...lager. My fastest turnaround is about 7 weeks. 2 weeks in primary, 2 day D rest, 5 days to get down to lager temps, 4 week lagering.

Not saying it wouldn't be palatable after 2-3 weeks, it would just be way more gooderer after some lagering.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Whether or not you can do an "accelerated" or "rapid" lager is completely dependent on the recipe, methods and yeast. Some turn out great, some cry for more rest and relaxation before they are palatable. Other factors like fining or filtering may shorten the lagering time needed a little bit. Some lager yeasts do great at warmer temps (to shorten fermentation time), others throw some really hideous flavors and aromas.

As far as mashing, if you aren't ok with doing a decoction, don't do it! If your grain bill (or desired result) needs a multi-step rest (ferulic acid, protein, whatever), then it probably should be done that way. If a single infusion will work, do that.

The hardest i've pushed a lager is my Czech Pils. It's stupidly simple, single infusion at 153F. 80% German pilsner, 10% Vienna, 10% Munich. Low hopped just for proper balance (Saaz). I use an Urquell yeast strain at about 53F for two weeks, then bump it to 64F for a diacetyl rest for 2 to 3 days, then crash it to 33F-35F for two weeks. After 3 days at crash temp, I dump some trub (I use a conical fermenter, other people will rack to a secondary) and add gelatin. After all that, it goes into the keg and gets force carbonated. Overall about 5 weeks. It's pretty good fresh, but after another couple weeks, it's even better.

Your best bet is to start with a tried and proven recipe and process, and/or research different yeasts and temps for suitability of what you want to achieve. In all honestly, not everyone's taste buds can tell the difference between 2 weeks of lagering and 6 weeks. Also, some people may be more or less susceptible to different esters, fusels, and phenols. This leads to a wide variety of opinions.

The short version: Do a little googling, then brew it up!

 

[muledogus]

I've only done two lagers in all of my brewing and they both turned out great. Both were single infusion mashes so that wouldn't worry me but it was about 2 months grain to keg. I can't say what they would have been like if I racked them earlier but I can at least vouch for a single infusion mash giving me good lagers.

 

[VTX1300]

Patience is a virtue when I comes to lagers and Pilsners. My best Lagers and Pilsners have had at least 6 weeks of lager time. I always do a single infusion mash so the step mash is not necessary. Temp control and massive amounts of healthy yeast are the secret to good lagers IMHO.

 

[mrcej23]

It's stupidly simple, single infusion at 153F. 80% German pilsner, 10% Vienna, 10% Munich. Low hopped just for proper balance (Saaz). I use an Urquell yeast strain at about 53F for two weeks, then bump it to 64F for a diacetyl rest for 2 to 3 days, then crash it to 33F-35F for two weeks. After 3 days at crash temp, I dump some trub (I use a conical fermenter, other people will rack to a secondary) and add gelatin. After all that, it goes into the keg and gets force carbonated. Overall about 5 weeks.

This is pretty similar to the recipes I've been looking at for a festbier, except it would use Hallertau, Munich lager yeast, and maybe half a pound of victory added to the grist. Is there any reason I couldn't do that with exactly the process you just described?

 

[VTX1300]

This is my Pilsner recipe. Temperature control, patience and plenty of healthy yeast are the key to good lagers and pilsners.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Pilsner

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Bohemian Pilsener
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 6 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.6 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.040
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 5.07%
IBU (tinseth): 40.7
SRM (mosher): 5.57

FERMENTABLES:
10.5 lb - German - Pilsner (98.3%)
0.18 lb - German - Acidulated Malt (1.7%)

HOPS:
1.5 oz - Saaz, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.5, Use: Boil for 90 min, IBU: 19.49
1.5 oz - Saaz, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.5, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 11.03
1.5 oz - Saaz, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 3.63
1.5 oz - Saaz, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at °F, IBU: 6.55

YEAST:
White Labs - German Lager Yeast WLP830
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 76.5%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 50 - 55 F
Fermentation Temp: 50 F
Pitch Rate: 1.5 (M cells / ml / deg P)

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name:
Ca2: 20
Mg2: 7
Na: 0
Cl: 36
SO4: 29
HCO3: 0

Sorry, I forgot you were looking for a larger recipe. If interested this is a tasty pilsne r to try sometime.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

This is pretty similar to the recipes I've been looking at for a festbier, except it would use Hallertau, Munich lager yeast, and maybe half a pound of victory added to the grist. Is there any reason I couldn't do that with exactly the process you just described?

Do it! I think it would be quite tasty. Do not skip the d-rest and don't be surprised if it smells like rotten egg dog farts during fermentation. That sulfur will go away with time.

Worst case, its a little rough around the edges when first tapped. If so, give it another week in the kegerator. Degas the keg a couple times a day for a few days (to help get rid of a few volatiles, sometimes this helps, sometimes it doesn't)

 

[ba-brewer]

I have several all grain ales under my belt and have been wanting to make my first lager for a while now, since I now have the temp control to do it. After trying the Weihenstephan/Sierra Nevada festbier collab a couple days ago and loving it, I've decided I'd like to do a similar Oktoberfest. Not amber like a Märzen, rather a deep golden color. Seemed to me like a basic German light lager with a lot more malt character.

I'm only hesitant to doing this style for a couple reasons: 1. I see a lot of recipes calling for a step or decoction mash (I only have a cooler for a mash tun and decoction seems complicated) and 2. I know that lagers traditionally take anywhere from a month to several months for completion and I'm just not willing to wait that long.

So, is the step/decoction mash really necessary, or can this be done with single infusion? Secondly, has anyone here had success turning a lager around in 2-3 weeks max?

I'd also love recommendations for recipes. I found this recipe in an article and it seems interesting but also says to do a decoction mash: http://www.beersmith.com/Recipes2/recipe_304.htm

The present day Oktoberfest beers are festbiers. There are not a lot of recipes for them but looking at the style guidelines there is not much difference between festbiers and munich helles export(dortmunder export). Not a lot of dortmunder recipes either but it gives you something else to look at.

If you want malty lager maybe try a munich helles, this one is not too hard.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/gavins-mightily-malty-munich-helles.542886/

 

[anotherbeerplease]

I brew my Oktoberfests in March and cold condition them until Sept. Can't say the 6 months is necessarily hugely beneficial but patience is definitely a virtue in lagers. If you really hate waiting just split the batch and make half of it an ale. Or do a double brew day.

The biggest improvement I've had in my lagers is with water profile. I switched to RO and add just enough brewing salts to approximate Munich or Pilsen water, or whatever I'm going for. Also the yeast... usually a huge starter will help, or do a few generations worth of starter. And if you can, brew a second or third beer on the same yeast cake as it will only get better.

None of what I just said is really necessary. It of course is possible to do a lager with tap water and turn it around in a couple weeks. But with light and delicate beers I think every little bit helps.