First lager - saflager w34/70

[rskelhorn]

Hi,

I'm looking for clarification RE: fermentation/lagering with saflager.

The stats for saflager w34/70 state:

Min ferment temp: 48

Does this mean that you will lager no less than the min temp stated on the package of 48?

Can someone give me a generic fermenting/lagering schedule if such one exists?

I can either hook up my temp. controlled freezer and adjust to whatever temp is best, also, my cellar is 57F.

Looking for advice!
Kind regards

 

[GonZolaB]

Hi rskelhorn, yes, you wouldn't want to go lower than 48 F.
The Ideal recommended fermentation temp. for this yeast is between 53.6 F and 59 F.
I rehydrate the yeast in approx. 54 F water and pitch into the wort that is approx. the same temp

 

[GonZolaB]

Also, a lagering schedule that worked for me with this yeast was
54 degrees F for approx. 5 to 8 days until you are around 75 to 80 percent done (towards your expected Final Gravity) then bring temperature up to around 65 degrees F for 2 to 3 days (Diacetyl Rest).
After the Diacetyl Rest, I rack to secondary and set the temperature to 50 degrees F and lower the temperature about 5 degrees per day until I reach approx. 32 degrees F.
I lager at 32 degrees for one week per every 10 gravity points of the OG.
For example : O.G. 1.060 = 6 weeks lagering

 

[GonZolaB]

P.S. I think I misunderstood your question about the minimum temperature.
That minimum is the minimum temp. for fermenting, I think you were asking if you had to keep it above 48 degrees while lagering, the answer is No.
You should lager in the low 30's after you are done fermenting.

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

Lagering temp should be about 10-15 degrees colder than fermenting temp. Most people ferment 45 to 55 and lager at 32 to 42.
According to John Palmer’s How to Brew the recommended lagering times are one of the following (keep in mind that higher gravity beers will need to be lagered longer):

• 4 Weeks at 45°F (7°C)
• 5-6 Weeks at 40°F (4°C)
• 7-8 Weeks at 35°F (2°C)

For lagers, colder and longer is better, to create a clean taste and better clarity. I typed this as GonZolaB was replying and as you can tell, we agree pretty closely. It is claimed that W34/70 is a low diacetyl producer but I've needed a diacetyl rest both times that I've used it. The directions above from GonZolaB are pretty standard for a diacetyl rest but for me, my lagers have fermented fast and waiting until day 5 was almost too late for an effective diacetyl rest.

 

[GonZolaB]

Lagering temp should be about 10-15 degrees colder than fermenting temp. Most people ferment 45 to 55 and lager at 32 to 42.
According to John Palmer’s How to Brew the recommended lagering times are one of the following (keep in mind that higher gravity beers will need to be lagered longer):

• 4 Weeks at 45°F (7°C)
• 5-6 Weeks at 40°F (4°C)
• 7-8 Weeks at 35°F (2°C)

For lagers, colder and longer is better, to create a clean taste and better clarity. I typed this as GonZolaB was replying and as you can tell, we agree pretty closely. It is claimed that W34/70 is a low diacetyl producer but I've needed a diacetyl rest both times that I've used it. The directions above from GonZolaB are pretty standard for a diacetyl rest but for me, my lagers have fermented fast and waiting until day 5 was almost too late for an effective diacetyl rest.

Good info here BridgewaterBrewer! I am by no means an experienced brewer, but I learn a lot from these forums

 

[rskelhorn]

Also, a lagering schedule that worked for me with this yeast was
54 degrees F for approx. 5 to 8 days until you are around 75 to 80 percent done (towards your expected Final Gravity) then bring temperature up to around 65 degrees F for 2 to 3 days (Diacetyl Rest).
After the Diacetyl Rest, I rack to secondary and set the temperature to 50 degrees F and lower the temperature about 5 degrees per day until I reach approx. 32 degrees F.
I lager at 32 degrees for one week per every 10 gravity points of the OG.
For example : O.G. 1.060 = 6 weeks lagering

Lagering temp should be about 10-15 degrees colder than fermenting temp. Most people ferment 45 to 55 and lager at 32 to 42.
According to John Palmer’s How to Brew the recommended lagering times are one of the following (keep in mind that higher gravity beers will need to be lagered longer):

• 4 Weeks at 45°F (7°C)
• 5-6 Weeks at 40°F (4°C)
• 7-8 Weeks at 35°F (2°C)

For lagers, colder and longer is better, to create a clean taste and better clarity. I typed this as GonZolaB was replying and as you can tell, we agree pretty closely. It is claimed that W34/70 is a low diacetyl producer but I've needed a diacetyl rest both times that I've used it. The directions above from GonZolaB are pretty standard for a diacetyl rest but for me, my lagers have fermented fast and waiting until day 5 was almost too late for an effective diacetyl rest.

Excellent, this helps a ton guys thank you.

I misunderstood the fact that the fermenting stage is different than the lagering stage. When I read the package, I sort of thought lagering was the process of fermenting the lager style beer and I was wrong.

With respect to the D. rest, in those 2 or so days, are you bringing this up from 75-80% to 90%? Is it standard to leave ~10% for lagering? What happens if you reach 100% before the lager?

 

[GonZolaB]

rskelhorn, keep In mind that lagers require higher pitching rate.
I usually use 2 packets for O.G. around 1.060. (5 gallon batch) make sure to use a yeast pitching calculator.

 

[GonZolaB]

Excellent, this helps a ton guys thank you.

I misunderstood the fact that the fermenting stage is different than the lagering stage. When I read the package, I sort of thought lagering was the process of fermenting the lager style beer and I was wrong.

With respect to the D. rest, in those 2 or so days, are you bringing this up from 75-80% to 90%? Is it standard to leave ~10% for lagering? What happens if you reach 100% before the lager?

You do the D-rest once you are around 75 % to 80% done (based on your O.G. and expected F.G.) and bringing it up to 65 degrees for a couple of days should complete your fermentation and get you to your F.G.
Just make sure to take your gravity readings to make sure

 

[rskelhorn]

You do the D-rest once you are around 75 % to 80% done (based on your O.G. and expected F.G.) and bringing it up to 65 degrees for a couple of days should complete your fermentation and get you to your F.G.
Just make sure to take your gravity readings to make sure

Oh ok, so you finish fermentation during the D-rest.. and then lager.. interesting.

Is there any issue with respect to "over lagering" other than the potential to have to repitch yeast to achieve carbonation?

 

[GonZolaB]

No issues. I haven't had to add yeast at bottling, but the longest I have lagered for is around 7 or 8 weeks, I find there is still enough yeast in suspension to carbonate after bottling. Some people like to add a small amount of yeast when bottling just to make sure.

 

[olie]

Slightly related tangent (hope that's ok) -- do y'all lager carbonated or uncarbonated beer?

That is, do you (i) keg, carbonate, lager (or (ia) carbonate, keg, lager) or (ii) keg, lager, carbonate?

Is the beer carbonated during the lagering phase?

NOTE: I force-carbonate.