First lager - AHS Oktoberfest. Question about cooling

[Dr_Horrible]

I have been using a fermentation chamber since I started brewing, because it's just too damn hot in Texas. So I figure a lager, while a bit more work, shouldn't be a huge deal.

I have setup the fermentation chamber at 70*F, and it says that once it starts to ferment (I will be checking in 24 hours), to SLOWLY drop the temperature to 50*F for a couple weeks (1* an hour).

Well I don't know if I really have the time to babysit the temperature controller for 20 hours, so I suppose my question is what's the safe compromise here? Can I lower it 5 degrees every few hours? What exactly am I trying to prevent here versus just setting it to 50*F and walking away and letting it drop to 50*F?

Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

I have been using a fermentation chamber since I started brewing, because it's just too damn hot in Texas. So I figure a lager, while a bit more work, shouldn't be a huge deal.

I have setup the fermentation chamber at 70*F, and it says that once it starts to ferment (I will be checking in 24 hours), to SLOWLY drop the temperature to 50*F for a couple weeks (1* an hour).

Well I don't know if I really have the time to babysit the temperature controller for 20 hours, so I suppose my question is what's the safe compromise here? Can I lower it 5 degrees every few hours? What exactly am I trying to prevent here versus just setting it to 50*F and walking away and letting it drop to 50*F?

Thanks!

The best way to do this is to get more yeast, and to pitch more yeast at 50 degrees. The only reason to start a lager at 70 degrees is so that you get more yeast growth faster- it's a bad compromise to save $$$ on yeast. Lagers generally need about 3 times more yeast than ales, due to the lower temperature. If you can get enough yeast, or can make a big starter, you can avoid starting the lager at 70 degrees.

I don't start my ales at 90 degrees and reduce to 70, and I definitely would NOT start my lager 20 degrees too high. By the time you get the temperature down to 50 degrees, fermentation will be nearly over.

I'd definitely chill it to 60 before adding the yeast, preferably lower.

 

[Dr_Horrible]

The best way to do this is to get more yeast, and to pitch more yeast at 50 degrees. The only reason to start a lager at 70 degrees is so that you get more yeast growth faster- it's a bad compromise to save $$$ on yeast. Lagers generally need about 3 times more yeast than ales, due to the lower temperature. If you can get enough yeast, or can make a big starter, you can avoid starting the lager at 70 degrees.

I don't start my ales at 90 degrees and reduce to 70, and I definitely would NOT start my lager 20 degrees too high. By the time you get the temperature down to 50 degrees, fermentation will be nearly over.

I'd definitely chill it to 60 before adding the yeast, preferably lower.

Well my homebrew store is closed for the day and I've already pitched. I can go by the store tomorrow and grab another smack pack and pitch it tomorrow, in the meantime I can set my fermenting chamber to 50 to slow down fermentation?

edit: FWIW, the smack pack of yeast I got says to pitch at 68-72 which is what I've done, and says that you can drop temperature after fermentation begins.

 

[Yooper]

Well my homebrew store is closed for the day and I've already pitched. I can go by the store tomorrow and grab another smack pack and pitch it tomorrow, in the meantime I can set my fermenting chamber to 50 to slow down fermentation?

edit: FWIW, the smack pack of yeast I got says to pitch at 68-72 which is what I've done, and says that you can drop temperature after fermentation begins.

Yeah, I know it says that. That's because they instruct you to compensate for underpitching. That doesn't mean it's best practice, just that they won't get nasty letters telling them that the yeast didn't ferment.

From their own website (I just copied and pasted):

Pitch Rate:
Lagers typically have a reduced ester profile and are characterized as clean with discernable malt character. It is very important to recognize that pitch rate is directly related to ester production. Increasing the quantity of yeast pitched is the most effective method of reducing the ester profile in the finished beer. A minimum of 12 million cells per milliliter is recommended to keep esters at a minimum.

One Wyeast Activator pack will deliver about 6 million cells per milliliter to 5 gallons of wort. In order to increase this rate to 12 million cells per milliliter it is necessary to either pitch two Activators or to make a 0.5 gallon (2 liter) starter with an Activator. If a starter is made using a Propagator (50ml package) then the starter needs to be 1 gallon (3.78 liters) to achieve 12 million cells per ml.

 

[Yooper]

And the very next paragraph (again, copied and pasted from their site, but bold emphasis added by me here):

Fermentation Temperature:

One of the most common questions we field is, “should I start my lager warm or cold?” The answer depends on how much time you have for your primary fermentation and how clean you want your final beer. The best results will be achieved by pitching at least 12 million cells per milliliter into cold and well aerated wort (48 to 58°F, 9 to 15°C).

If a faster primary fermentation is desired or you are pitching less yeast, then it is best to start a little bit warmer and then cool to the desired fermentation temperature once signs of fermentation are evident.

 

[Dr_Horrible]

And the very next paragraph (again, copied and pasted from their site, but bold emphasis added by me here):

Fermentation Temperature:

One of the most common questions we field is, “should I start my lager warm or cold?” The answer depends on how much time you have for your primary fermentation and how clean you want your final beer. The best results will be achieved by pitching at least 12 million cells per milliliter into cold and well aerated wort (48 to 58°F, 9 to 15°C).

If a faster primary fermentation is desired or you are pitching less yeast, then it is best to start a little bit warmer and then cool to the desired fermentation temperature once signs of fermentation are evident.

Well I suppose there are two options for me at this point:

1) Let the yeast ride out 12 hours through the morning, and then drop the temperature slowly as per instructions (based on what you're telling me, the yeast population should rise to appropriate levels in the warmer wort).

2) Drop the temperature now to 50F to slow it all down, grab another pack and pitch tomorrow morning-ish.

Are those both valid? Is there a preferred in this situation? I pitched roughly 2 hours ago now.

I appreciate you sharing all this information and explaining it to me. It's all great information. Since this is my first lager, I was going with the instructions tied to the recipe (which I have followed thus far).

 

[Yooper]

Well I suppose there are two options for me at this point:

1) Let the yeast ride out 12 hours through the morning, and then drop the temperature slowly as per instructions (based on what you're telling me, the yeast population should rise to appropriate levels in the warmer wort).

2) Drop the temperature now to 50F to slow it all down, grab another pack and pitch tomorrow morning-ish.

Are those both valid? Is there a preferred in this situation? I pitched roughly 2 hours ago now.

I appreciate you sharing all this information and explaining it to me. It's all great information. Since this is my first lager, I was going with the instructions tied to the recipe (which I have followed thus far).

I'm not sure what I'd do right now. I think either/or would be ok.

To throw another monkey wrench at you, even two packages is underpitching. I know Wyeast says 12 million cells per ml, but that is in a lower OG wort with ultra-fresh yeast.

Consult a yeast pitching calculator, such as the one on mrmalty.com, and see that lagers need a LOT more yeast than you'd think for optimum pitching.

 

[Dr_Horrible]

I'm not sure what I'd do right now. I think either/or would be ok.

To throw another monkey wrench at you, even two packages is underpitching. I know Wyeast says 12 million cells per ml, but that is in a lower OG wort with ultra-fresh yeast.

Consult a yeast pitching calculator, such as the one on mrmalty.com, and see that lagers need a LOT more yeast than you'd think for optimum pitching.

Let's say I go with option 1, that goes back to my initial question about the best way to gradually cool the yeast. Am I trying to avoid shocking the yeast into hibernation? If I do 5* every few hours down to 50* is that acceptable?

 

[Yooper]

Let's say I go with option 1, that goes back to my initial question about the best way to gradually cool the yeast. Am I trying to avoid shocking the yeast into hibernation? If I do 5* every few hours down to 50* is that acceptable?

I honestly do not know. If you wait until fermentation starts, and it's at 70, by the time you get to 50 degrees the beer may be done. But if you chill too quickly, the yeast may slow down dramatically. I just don't know how fast is too fast. I'd err on too fast, rather than too slow, though.