First EPA

[jaz5833]

OK, so I bypassed extract and went directly to all grain. I've successfully brewed 2 Stouts and a Brown Ale. I had an epic fail on a honey blonde because I was in too big of a hurry. (Lesson learned) Now I'm venturing out into building my own recipe and I would like some feedback from the more experienced folks.

Grain Bill:{3 Gallon Batch}

• 4 lbs Warminster Floor - Malted Maris Otter L5
• 1 lb Flaked Oats L2
• 8 oz - Briess Carapils L1
• 8 oz - Gambrius Honey Malt L25

Hops:
1 oz - Fuggles 30 minutes
1 oz - Fuggles 5 minutes

Yeast:
White Labs - British Ale / WLP005

Irish Moss/Yeast Nutrient 1 tspn each -15 minutes

I'm using a ten gallon orange water cooler with SS Braided hose configured in a loop as a Mash/Lauter tun and pouring 3 gallons of 155 degree water over the grains for one hour(first runnings). Sparging (second runnings) with 1 gallon at 170 for 10 minutes to end up with about 2-1/2 gallons of wort. Boiling for 1 hour and topping off with clean cool water to make 3 gallons and aid in cooling the wort. Cooling is finished with ice water in the sink to 70 degrees, pitch yeast, etc. and so on.

Aside from the recipe, this is how I brewed my previously mentioned stouts and they came out really good.

Any input -especially on the recipe is appreciated.TIA

 

[ajf]

Why flaked oats? I've never heard of flaked oats in an EPA.
I also think that 4 lbs M.O. will have difficulty converting 1 lb oats (but I could be wrong). If you really need to use adjuncts, I'd suggest replacing the oats with a max of 8 oz flaked barley, flaked corn, or torrified wheat, and make up the gravity with a bit more M.O. The barley or wheat would both give good head retention. I'd also suggest replacing the cara-pils with an equivalent amount of crystal 40 or crystal 60. This would add some extra depth and some color. (EPAs tend to be a bit darker than APAs.)
As for the hops, I'd replace the Fuggles with Goldings because Goldings are traditional for pale ales (but I've made good EPAs with Fuggles when Goldings weren't available) and I'd make the first addition at 60 minutes, rather than 30. I think you would have very low IBUs with additions at 30 and 5 min.

Good luck

-a.

 

[jaz5833]

Why flaked oats? I've never heard of flaked oats in an EPA.
I also think that 4 lbs M.O. will have difficulty converting 1 lb oats (but I could be wrong). If you really need to use adjuncts, I'd suggest replacing the oats with a max of 8 oz flaked barley, flaked corn, or torrified wheat, and make up the gravity with a bit more M.O. The barley or wheat would both give good head retention. I'd also suggest replacing the cara-pils with an equivalent amount of crystal 40 or crystal 60. This would add some extra depth and some color. (EPAs tend to be a bit darker than APAs.)
As for the hops, I'd replace the Fuggles with Goldings because Goldings are traditional for pale ales (but I've made good EPAs with Fuggles when Goldings weren't available) and I'd make the first addition at 60 minutes, rather than 30. I think you would have very low IBUs with additions at 30 and 5 min.

Good luck

-a.

Thanks for the input as this is exactly what I need. I have tried to build this recipe solely on what I have learned to date and the list of ingredients on the Northern Brewer site. They are described very well as to the effect each has on brewing flavors. I also input the above into the calculator at Hopville and adjusted my original recipe to fit the style. I had to adjust from “English Ale Yeast” to “British” in order to meet the style ABV.

So, my choices above were based on those three things. I do not need to stay within style but think it will help me learn the effect of each ingredient better.

The oats were described as "Adding Body and a Creamy Texture". Yes / No?? Would Barley be a better choice as you have suggested? If so, I would like to learn the reason why.((In greater detail than you have already explained-if it can be)

Other details are as follows:
Target OG: 1.051
Target FG: 1.015
Target ABV: 4.8%
Target IBU: 30.6
Color: 8 SRM (Gold to Copper)

I’m looking to brew a light colored ale with lots of hop aroma but less bitterness. I would also hope it to have medium body and head retention. (Somewhere between refreshing summer ale and winter heavy ale)

So far I’m pleased there has only been one suggested change. I’m not looking to be propped up but to learn, so please blast away if you see something amiss.

Thanks again.

 

[jaz5833]

Forgot to add that I chose Fuggles because up to now I've only used Goldings and I'd like to experience another type of hop. I'm not a hop fan but I read here that sometimes you can "Find" a hop if you change it up enough.

 

[heckels]

Typically, the texture and body that oatmeal adds to a brew lends itself well to bigger, normally darker recipes such as stouts and porters. The mouthfeel added by oatmeal is gernerally not desired in cleaner finishing beers like pale ales.

With an EPA, you can get the medium body you desire by mashing aroun 152-154. The head retention can be gained through an adjunct like wheat or through carapils. I personally would swap out the oats for 8 oz of carapils. This assumes you had already swapped out the carapils for some crystal like ajf had mentioned.

 

[dcp27]

oats used to be common in old british recipes so theres nothing particularly wrong with using them. with that said, id opt for less and oat malt vs flaked if you want to keep it

also, a strike temp of 155 is awfully low for an EPA.

 

[ajf]

Why am I against oats?
Check out http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style08.php#1c
Under ingredients, they do not mention oats, but they don't mention flaked barley either.
I agree with the NB description "Adding Body and a Creamy Texture" IMO, a creamy texture is great in a stout, but not so in a pale ale. I like a small amount of flaked barley in a light colored pale ale. It helps with the head retention, and adds an interesting (to me) flavor but does not give a creamy texture. A small amount of wheat also adds body and helps the head. I personally don't like corn because I can taste it, and find the flavor objectionable.
If you want a light colored ale, then keep the carapils, and don't swap it out for crystal. You will lose some caramel flavor, but keep the color lighter.
Your reason for using Fuggles is perfectly sound, but I'd still prefer to boil for 60 min. You may have gotten 30 IBU out of the hops when they were fresh, but no matter how they were stored, they will have degraded to a certain extent. Boiling for 60 minutes will increase the IBUs slightly, and help to make up for the deterioration of the hops in storage.
I also agree with dcp27 that a strike temp of 155 is very low. My strike temp for my last brew was 165 to achieve a mash temp of 150 using a mash thickness of 1 qt water per lb grain.

-a.

 

[jaz5833]

creamy texture is great in a stout, but not so in a pale ale. I like a small amount of flaked barley in a light colored pale ale.
-a.

This I Get it! I think you're saying, it's more than fitting ingredients into style guidelines. Yes?

OK, I'll adjust the recipe keeping this in mind and check back for some more advice.

I still think I would like to keep the IBUs on the downside of the style guidelines and aroma on the high side. How would this best be acomplished; a small amount for 60 min. then a lot at the end for a short amount of time or none at the end and perhaps dry hopping?

Thanks for the advice, it's rapidly improving my understanding.

 

[ChillWill]

Most English breweries I've been to mash 148-150f and use torrified wheat for body and head.

High mash temp seems to be an American way of adding sweetness to disguise the lack of 'malty' flavour 2-row gives compared to the likes of using maris otter and a bit of medium crystal and low bitterness. With an English pale, you really don't want an fg of 1.015, more like 1.010. Not saying that would make a bad beer, just it wouldn't be an EPA.

 

[Dr. Francois]

I still think I would like to keep the IBUs on the downside of the style guidelines and aroma on the high side. How would this best be acomplished; a small amount for 60 min. then a lot at the end for a short amount of time or none at the end and perhaps dry hopping?

It looks like you are having a lot of fun brewing and learning. That's the way to do it!

Given your goal for bitterness, I would keep the 2oz but add them in a slightly different schedule.
.25@60
.25@15
.75@5
.75@0 or dry hop

You coould increase or decrease any of these with good effect. I think you would find that something was lacking if you started your bittering at 30.

 

[ajf]

This I Get it! I think you're saying, it's more than fitting ingredients into style guidelines. Yes?

OK, I'll adjust the recipe keeping this in mind and check back for some more advice.

I still think I would like to keep the IBUs on the downside of the style guidelines and aroma on the high side. How would this best be acomplished; a small amount for 60 min. then a lot at the end for a short amount of time or none at the end and perhaps dry hopping?

Thanks for the advice, it's rapidly improving my understanding.

Yes, there's a lot more to it than just adding random ingredients to achieve the BJCP guidelines. You have to pick the right ingredients, and there's nothing wrong with going outside the guidelines to satisfy your requirements if you know what you are doing.
However, with the exception of the oats, your ingredients look good.
The English pale malt is the backbone of any EPA, and Maris Otter is one of the best.
Cara Pils is effectively a very light crystal. Most EPAs use a medium crystal, but you want to keep the color light, so Cara Pils would be a good substitute.
The honey malt, although I've never tried it, sounds like it would be a good replacement for the medium crystal, adding some flavor and a bit of color.
As for the hops, if you want low bitterness, and good aroma, I'd go for 1 oz first wort hops (adding the hops to the kettle before starting the sparge) and then adding about 0.5 - 0.75 oz hops with 15 minutes left in the boil, and another 0.5 - 0.75 oz at flameout. That should give you pretty close to 30 IBU, but give you plenty of hop flavor and aroma.

-a.

 

[ajf]

There are also two books I can recommend for anybody starting out formulating their own recipes.
Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer
and Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels

Brewing Classic Styles does not show you how to design recipes, but it does give proven recipes for most beer styles. These are excellent starting points when brewing a style that you have never brewed before.

Designing Great Beers does not give any recipes, but it does give an amazing amount of information on many beer styles both from commercial and home brew examples.
It also provides a lot of information that I have not found anywhere else.
ChillWill mentioned that English breweries typically mash at 148 - 150F. So does Daniels. He also recommends a mash thickness of about 1 US qt per lb, which I have found makes a fantastic difference to the character of an English beer.

a.

 

[jaz5833]

However, with the exception of the oats, your ingredients look good. The English pale malt is the backbone of any EPA, and Maris Otter is one of the best. Cara Pils is effectively a very light crystal. Most EPAs use a medium crystal, but you want to keep the color light, so Cara Pils would be a good substitute.
The honey malt, although I've never tried it, sounds like it would be a good replacement for the medium crystal, adding some flavor and a bit of color.
As for the hops, if you want low bitterness, and good aroma, I'd go for 1 oz first wort hops (adding the hops to the kettle before starting the sparge) and then adding about 0.5 - 0.75 oz hops with 15 minutes left in the boil, and another 0.5 - 0.75 oz at flameout. That should give you pretty close to 30 IBU, but give you plenty of hop flavor and aroma.-a.

I’m sold on swapping out the oats.

Given your goal for bitterness, I would keep the 2oz but add them in a slightly different schedule.
.25@60
.25@15
.75@5
.75@0 or dry hop

You could increase or decrease any of these with good effect. I think you would find that something was lacking if you started your bittering at 30.

I must admit that I chose 30 minutes based on entering random amounts and times into the recipe calculator to achieve a low IBU but didn’t give any thought to the added “Character” a schedule as listed above might lend to the depth and complexity of the final product.

I think I got too wrapped up in the calculator.

Most English breweries I've been to mash 148-150f and use torrified wheat for body and head.

High mash temp seems to be an American way of adding sweetness to disguise the lack of 'malty' flavour 2-row gives compared to the likes of using maris otter and a bit of medium crystal and low bitterness. With an English pale, you really don't want an fg of 1.015, more like 1.010. Not saying that would make a bad beer, just it wouldn't be an EPA.

I’m going to follow your recommendation on lowering the gravity. I am trying to achieve something that is “English” authentic and I figure if you’re there, you ought to know.

I also want to thank everyone for their input. I have avoided interacting this way especially since it’s not the “beginners” forum. I had progressed as far as I could on my own and was kind of forced into it, but you guys really surprised me with your willingness to help out a newbie. I won’t be brewing till October sometime but I will be sure to let everyone know how the advice panned out.

I’m also gonna follow through with the final recipe too when I get it adjusted.

Thanks. Jim

 

[jaz5833]

OK, here’s the new and improved adjusted recipe.

3 Gallon Batch

Fermentables
4 LBS - Warminster Floor – Malted Maris Otter
12 OZ – Gambrinus Honey Malt
8 OZ – Briess Carapils

Adjuncts
10 OZ Torrified Wheat

Hops
.5oz Fuggles @ 60 Min
.5oz Fuggles @ 30 Min
.5oz Fuggles @ 5 Min
.5oz Fuggles @ 1 Min (Calculates to 32.2 IBU)


Mash @ 152 for 1 Hour
Batch Sparge @ 170 for 10 Min

Target OG is 1.049
Target FG is 1.014
Target ABV is 4.7%

7 days in Primary @ 66


Look good or better?

 

[ChillWill]

Just looked at the attenuation of wlp005, it's a lazy bugger! If you get its stated high end 74% attenuation you'll only make it down to 1.013.

Should turn out nicely though. The only thing I'd change is to mash at 148-150F for that grain bill, the honey malt and low attenuation of the yeast will look after the malty profile for you without needing to mash any higher than that.

Also, 0.5oz at 5min and 0.5oz at 1 min might be quite a lot for a 3gallon batch. I'd say 0.5oz at flameout would be sufficient or the fuggles may make it taste too earthy; I've had this with goldings using too many hops toward the end in an English pale and it really doesn't do the beer any favours.

 

[ChillWill]

Also check out my thread, there are a few of us on there that have been developing our beers and you'll see I started off with similar questions to you and see how mine developed.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/revolutionary-epa-218625/index5.html

 

[dcp27]

if you haven't come across it yet, theres lots of good info on british beers if you sift thru this (its long): https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/b...on-temps-profiles-cybi-other-thoughts-221817/