So my wife has been after me to make her Cider for a long time. She handed me a recipe and wants to try tonight. I have 5 gallons of preservative free apple juice, but she didn’t get yeast so I would like to just use the Trappist ale yeast that I’m going to have left after I take my Belgian Golden out of the fermenter tonight. Now here’s the question, the Belgian only had about an ounce of hops which were done in a hop spider so the amount of hops in the trub should be barely any. What are your thoughts on pouring apple juice directly onto the yeast cake, oxygenating with my wand, and sealing it back up? I think this would make for a great fermentation given the amount of yeast likely to be in that cake.
First Cider
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kl Roosevelt brewer
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This is going to be an interesting thread if it catches on. I have no experience in reusing yeast and maybe I can learn something here. The only thing I did today was take my maple wine out of the fermenter bucket and put it in the glass carboy. I'm using the d47 yeast so I sucked up as much of the Lees as I could as I put it into my glass carboy. There was some really sick sludge on the bottom that I couldn't suck up but hopefully I got enough to end up with a good bed of Lee's on the bottom. They say if you leave your must on the Lee's of d47 you can pick up some extra spice flavor. This is my first attempt at pure maple syrup water in yeast and I have to tell you it has a taste like none other. A little Woody a little maple syrup flavor and something unique I can't put my finger on can't wait till it clears. Good luck with this thread and tip one up for our vets today
I have poured apple juice onto the yeast cake before when I bottled beer (it was S-33 yeast), but the yeast was pretty clean because I had used a brew bucket for a primary and racked it to the carboy after a week -- leaving most of the trub behind.
What you're talking about should work, but I would not leave it on that much old yeast for the month or two that cider takes. Rack it to another carboy when the fermentation slows down, and top it up with cheap apple juice.
What you're talking about should work, but I would not leave it on that much old yeast for the month or two that cider takes. Rack it to another carboy when the fermentation slows down, and top it up with cheap apple juice.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
I poured apple juice onto a cake from a previous cider. It tasted like eggs (not rotten eggs, just hard boiled eggs), I'm guessing from autolysis. I left it on the lees the whole time for both batches, which probably didn't help.
That was the only batch I ever dumped.
I know that it *can* work but on the other hand I can buy dry yeast for $0.99 and not have to worry about contamination, hop debris, autolysis, etc.
Just my thoughts. When my wife asks me to brew something I spring for the best ingredients
That was the only batch I ever dumped.
I know that it *can* work but on the other hand I can buy dry yeast for $0.99 and not have to worry about contamination, hop debris, autolysis, etc.
Just my thoughts. When my wife asks me to brew something I spring for the best ingredients
kl Roosevelt brewer
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I always wondered why somebody would try to save yeast like you say you can buy a new pack for $0.99
I poured apple juice onto a cake from a previous cider. It tasted like eggs (not rotten eggs, just hard boiled eggs), I'm guessing from autolysis.
That was the only batch I ever dumped.
I know that it *can* work but on the other hand I can buy dry yeast for $0.99 and not have to worry about contamination, hop debris, autolysis, etc.
Just my thoughts. When my wife asks me to brew something I spring for the best ingredients
OP
OP
Saboral
Well-Known Member
I poured apple juice onto a cake from a previous cider. It tasted like eggs (not rotten eggs, just hard boiled eggs), I'm guessing from autolysis. I left it on the lees the whole time for both batches, which probably didn't help.
That was the only batch I ever dumped.
I know that it *can* work but on the other hand I can buy dry yeast for $0.99 and not have to worry about contamination, hop debris, autolysis, etc.
Just my thoughts. When my wife asks me to brew something I spring for the best ingredients
It’s not about being cheap it’s about using a viable yeast cake instead of wasting it. Based on what I’m hearing and some other reading, I think I’m going to use a fresh fermenter and I’m going to properly harvest the middle third of the cake to avoid autolysis.
No worries, I’m actually excited to see the character the Trappist ale yeast gives to a Cider.
Oh and given the holiday weekend, my LHBS is closed till Tuesday. She wants to make it this weekend.
I'm no expert, but I believe you avoid autolysis by getting the wine off the lees once fermentation slows down enough for the lees to settle out. While the fermentation is active, the yeast should consume any breakdown products of the old yeast.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
I'm no expert either.
Generally I wait until cider drops clear (about 3-6 weeks) before touching it. So I guess racking sooner or using a partial cake might have helped.
Now I just keep extra yeast on hand to avoid this issue. Plus it's neutral bottling yeast if I ever need it
Trappist could definitely make an interesting cider. Hope it turns out well for you!
Cheers
Generally I wait until cider drops clear (about 3-6 weeks) before touching it. So I guess racking sooner or using a partial cake might have helped.
Now I just keep extra yeast on hand to avoid this issue. Plus it's neutral bottling yeast if I ever need it
Trappist could definitely make an interesting cider. Hope it turns out well for you!
Cheers
OP
OP
Saboral
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Oh ok, I was under the impression there were concerns avoid some of the old yeast that might be in the cake. If it’s just about getting off the Lees (I assume this means trub in the Cider world) as soon as primary fermentation stops that can definitely be accomplished. Is there a specific gravity I should be looking for to make the transfer? Should I really be expecting a three week primary? This same yeast brought a 1.085 wort to 1.010 in 14 days.
I had a gal. of preservative free fresh pressed juice in my fridge. We drank half right away. Then a quarter later. It was getting fizzy so I dumped it in a 2 gal. bucket, added another gal. of fresh pressed juice and put it under an airlock. It made one of my fav. ciders of all time!
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Saboral
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Well it’s fermenting now and the off gassing smells pretty good! Got it in the BrewPi chamber and monitoring to look for a slowing fermentation at which point I will rack to a secondary. One consideration I have right now is how long to have the initial yeast to dry it out in secondary before resorting to champagne yeast to finish it.
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Guessing your trappist yeast will take it dry and you won't need additional yeast.
A lot of factors affect the time it takes. Few weeks probably. Most people will tell you slower is better; try to be patient with it
A lot of factors affect the time it takes. Few weeks probably. Most people will tell you slower is better; try to be patient with it
I wouldn't add champagne yeast at all. Stick to the trappist yeast. I did a cider with a white-labs trappist ale yeast about 4 years ago.
I lost my notes, so I don't remember specifics other than from memory. I think it was apple cider from a local shop and 12lb of adolfo mangos.
I lost my notes, so I don't remember specifics other than from memory. I think it was apple cider from a local shop and 12lb of adolfo mangos.
kl Roosevelt brewer
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Well I learned something yesterday when I went to the local homebrew store. Stepping away from making Mead and cider and taking on this new adventure of malt extract beer brewing and getting involved with the different yeast I learned that yeast cost around 4 bucks a pack such as us 05 to make a batch of beer. So now I see why you guys reuse your yeast it could get expensive! I have seen these conicals that you can Brew in and the removable traps in the bottom that look pretty cool. More equipment I guess! I went further back up in this thread and scene where I posted the question of why save the yeast if you can buy it for $0.99. You guys probably notice my ignorance but didn't say anything but figured it out when I went to the store yesterday and seen the prices. I'm not shy if you see me blunder again in the future please correct me thanks
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
This is the cider forum and commonly-used wine yeast is very cheap
The $0.99 stuff will make good cider (although some people prefer liquid yeast, so it depends on your taste).
Beer yeast runs in the $4-9 range, so it becomes more economical to save it.
You don't need fancy equipment. Pour the old yeast cake into sanitized jars and put it in the fridge. It absolutely will become contaminated after some number of uses, so you do run the risk of getting a funky batch, and can't use it forever.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/simple-yeast-storage-procedure-with-photos.579350/
If a contaminated batch needs to be dumped then you just wasted all the money you tried to save by propagating.
Saving slurry for sour/funky beers is a whole different story, and definitely recommended.
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OP
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Saboral
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This is the cider forum and commonly-used wine yeast is very cheap
The $0.99 stuff will make good cider (although some people prefer liquid yeast, so it depends on your taste).
Beer yeast runs in the $4-9 range, so it becomes more economical to save it.
You don't need fancy equipment. Pour the old yeast cake into sanitized jars and put it in the fridge. It absolutely will become contaminated after some number of uses, so you do run the risk of getting a funky batch, and can't use it forever.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/simple-yeast-storage-procedure-with-photos.579350/
If a contaminated batch needs to be dumped then you just wasted all the money you tried to save by propagating.
Saving slurry for sour/funky beers is a whole different story, and definitely recommended.
And in beer brewing even if you perfectly sanitize everything and have no infections in that yeast, it will actually mutate over time and change in character. Yeast are reproducing so fast in so many generations when brewing that it actually lets one see a scale model of evolution. So neat!
