first cider attempt this weekend

[bottlebomber]

I have about 200 pounds of apples picked last weekend and kept in cold storage, mostly gravensteins. I am going to be making hard cider with EC-118. I REALLY don't want to use campden tablets for some reason, I just want it to be apple juice and yeast. Is this unwise? This will be my first cider attempt period.

 

[Papagayo]

200 lbs is about 5 bushels, which should leave you with a very healthy amount of juice. I'm all for keeping it organic, so go for it. Just keep everything clean and sanitized, as best you can. And try to inoculate your yeast as soon as possible and keep O2 exposure to a minimum. Great ciders can be made without SO2 but the chances of infection are higher.

Since this is your first time, I would recommend 50ppm SO2 upon pressing, wait 24 hours, then inoculate. I promise you won't taste the sulfites and you'll be a lot safer. This is something you may want to consider because it would royally suck to lose 20 gallons of cider that you personally pressed due to something like film yeast or cider sickness.

 

[RobWalker]

That's a lot. O_O

How are you juicing? You might want to consider a way to perhaps syphon it straight into a sterilized bucket, at least at regular intervals to prevent long exposure to air. Air exposure won't really bugger up your cider, but it won't do it any favours. Don't boil it to sterilize - it'll activate the pectins and leave it cloudy for life.

 

[bottlebomber]

Im renting a chipper/juicer rig from my LHBS that's specifically for this. Thanks for the feedback guys, im really hoping it works out. I think its a good idea to keep the juice covered, or find a way to run it right into the carboy

 

[ChaosStout]

I have about 200 pounds of apples picked last weekend and kept in cold storage, mostly gravensteins. I am going to be making hard cider with EC-118. I REALLY don't want to use campden tablets for some reason, I just want it to be apple juice and yeast. Is this unwise? This will be my first cider attempt period.

Wouldnt it be better to use a beer yeast like WL002 English Ale? EC-1118 will leave you with an extreamly dry cider. For a 5 gallon batch start with like 4 gallons and boil up acouple pounds of DME, add and top to 5gal. This will leave you with some residual sweetness

 

[bottlebomber]

Wouldnt it be better to use a beer yeast like WL002 English Ale? EC-118 will leave you with an extreamly dry cider

You think an ale yeast will leave some sweetness?

 

[RobWalker]

All cider will ferment dry unless there's non-fermentables in there, or you cut fermentation or backsweeten. Different yeasts impart different attributes though, so if you havn't checked out the yeast thread yet, do so here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/

EC-118 will leave a boozier taste, and although you may have heard that wine and champagne yeasts are better for cider, I've yet to actually meet someone who doesn't prefer ale yeast. Wine yeast tastes cleaner, but I've made a batch with Safale S-04 and it tastes better overall in my opinion...just something to consider, especially considering the quantity!

Oh and, apple juice and yeast - like hell is that unwise. When did you ever hear of a natural, single variety cider being bad?

 

[bottlebomber]

Oh and, apple juice and yeast - like hell is that unwise. When did you ever hear of a natural, single variety cider being bad?

Thanks for the link. What do you mean with this?

 

[RobWalker]

Using nothing except apple juice and yeast is almost always a good idea.

 

[ChaosStout]

You think an ale yeast will leave some sweetness?

I would think. Pick one with a low attenuation. Cider is pretty much 100% fermentable though which is why I suggested the DME. Ive used EC1118 for wine and it is a very hungery beast and can reach 18% ABV if you feed it right lol.

 

[bottlebomber]

I would think. Pick one with a low attenuation. Cider is pretty much 100% fermentable though which is why I suggested the DME. Ive used EC1118 for wine and it is a very hungery beast and can reach 18% ABV if you feed it right lol.

I would like to add some kind of non/less fermentable sugars... Splenda is absolutely out of the question for me. But DME on the other hand would add a malty quality that im also not after. Im really hoping for a pure apple flavor, pretty dry but with some sweetness. I've heard a perceptual sweetness returns to dry ciders after some months of aging.

 

[ChaosStout]

I would like to add some kind of non/less fermentable sugars... Splenda is absolutely out of the question for me. But DME on the other hand would add a malty quality that im also not after. Im really hoping for a pure apple flavor, pretty dry but with some sweetness. I've heard a perceptual sweetness returns to dry ciders after some months of aging.

Maybe add some Lactose then. As far as the "Fake sugars" go I think Xylo is the one that taste most like sugar, but its damn spendy. You could also watch your Specific Gravity and taste test and then bottle and pasturize. That seems like a big hassle though.

 

[bottlebomber]

You could also watch your Specific Gravity and taste test and then bottle and pasturize. That seems like a big hassle though.

I thought about that, but it seems like 2 gravity points is about right for carbonation, and that's going to be hard to call. TG could be anywhere from 1.006 (hopefully) to .996

 

[RobWalker]

Lactose isn't really very sweet, and it'll add a thick body. Xylitol is probably your best bet for a non fermentable that won't add anything, but it still tastes like enough like a sweetener. I've used splenda - not recommended.

Kegging is the easiest way to sparkling and sweet. Bottle Pasteurizing is the other, but like said, it's difficult in large quantities.

You're right about the strange sweetness after ageing - it does seem to be there, but it won't show on the gravity. It's probably the other flavours rounding off...it's not "sweet" though, just less dry.

 

[MeadHorn]

I hope this isn't off topic, but has anyone tried using stevia for backsweetening a cider? To be honest, I haven't tried using it at all, but from what I understand, it's in the same camp as Xylitol as far as natural low calorie sweeteners are concerned.

More on topic, you can just leave it go dry, age it for a while, then if it's not sweet enough for you, add a splash of lemon-lime soda to a glass. It's what EdWort recommends for his apfelwein if you want to add some sweetness to it, and I do it with dry white wines to make them a little more palatable. You don't really taste the soda, it just adds a nice little bit of sweetness and a little carbonation.

 

[RobWalker]

More on topic, you can just leave it go dry, age it for a while, then if it's not sweet enough for you, add a splash of lemon-lime soda to a glass. It's what EdWort recommends for his apfelwein if you want to add some sweetness to it, and I do it with dry white wines to make them a little more palatable. You don't really taste the soda, it just adds a nice little bit of sweetness and a little carbonation.

That's because that's what they do in Germany, like you say, much like we do with our white and red wines. I would never do it with a lower percentage cider...adds too much flavour imo!

 

[MeadHorn]

Ya, you have a point there. If it ends up being a 3-5% cider, the soda option would be a touch strong (apfelwein is in the 8% range if I recall correctly).

 

[RobWalker]

Or 13% if you added enough sugar for a 5 gallon batch to a 1 gallon batch like I did by accident

 

[bottlebomber]

Or 13% if you added enough sugar for a 5 gallon batch to a 1 gallon batch like I did by accident

How did that turn out? I may add a pound or two of white sugar...

 

[RobWalker]

No real idea, it's clearing as we speak. Somehow it's fermented out to 0.992 with montrachet - gonna need some serious ageing obviously. Will let you know how it goes at some point later...

 

[4assed]

I made two batches of cider last fall with nothing but the fresh pressed apple juice- and some dextrose to carb half a batch. Yeah, maybe a bit risky to rely on spontaneous fermentation, but both batches turned out fantastic- ended around 1.000, so pretty dry, cleared up nicely too! My dad has 5 gal in the works now too. YUMMY!

 

[dinnerstick]

i have done a good few with wild yeast and have never had a bad batch to date, knock on cellulose/lignin-based furniture

 

[SteveHoward]

Re Wild yeast fermentation.

My wife is a traditional Korean lady in that she makes her own kimchi etc. She makes at big batch of some kind of Kimchi at least once/month.

So when I think of what is floating around wild around our house, I have to think of all the things that make kimchi ... and I can't imagine that would make a good tasting cider.

Am I off base in thinking like that?

 

[bottlebomber]

This apple press rig rocks. Im getting a gallon every 5 minutes. Collected 12 gallons juice so far and im only half done. I did use campden tablets. I've never done this before, and there's way too much at stake to screw up.

 

[bottlebomber]

The carboy on the right had the camden added first. You can really see how its lightened up the juice. OG of the juice is 1.050, way higher than I thought it would be. That may give me 6.5 abv without adding sugar