First carbonation with malt extract

[ayrton]

I bottled my tripel a little over a week ago. Its FG was 1.020, and since that was so high, I decided to use only 1 cup of DME instead of 1-1/4 cup. Over one week later, I've got zip. With corn sugar, I always had significant carbonation after that amount of time. The bottles are stored in a closet that is probably between 65 - 70 degrees all the time. Should I be concerned? Does DME require more time to carbonate? I should mention that I *did* hear a slight release of gas when I opened the bottle.

 

[Orfy]

I've had mine take 2 weeks with dme. It's not as fermentable as Corn sugar so you need more.

Why did you bottle if the FG was so high? What was the target?

 

[ayrton]

My OG was 1.100, and my FG was 1.020, giving me 80% attenuation, which is just right for the yeast I used. Not much I could do about it.

 

[Walker]

My OG was 1.100, and my FG was 1.020, giving me 80% attenuation, which is just right for the yeast I used. Not much I could do about it.

There was really no reason to use less DME to prime than normal. With 1 cup, you're 20% shy of the "baseline" amunt, but it should be OK. However, it WILL take more time to carbonate.

I used to prime my IPA with DME, but it always took 3 weeks or more to get good and carbed, so I stopped using the DME and went back to corn sugar to shave 1+ weeks off the wait.

So.... in my experience it takes about twice as long to carbonate with DME as it does with corn sugar.

-walker

 

[Torchiest]

Don't worry; like orfy said, DME takes longer than plain old corn sugar, but from what I've read, the wait is worth it, because the carbonation is superior. I'm bottling my stout today, and I'm going to use DME as well. I have to promise myself not to open one early!

 

[Walker]

DME takes longer than plain old corn sugar, but from what I've read, the wait is worth it, because the carbonation is superior.

Having brewed the same recipe multiple times and using DME for half of the batches and corn sugar for the other half of the batches, I'd like to put my $0.02 cents in here and claim that this "superior carbonation" thing is a myth.

-walker

 

[the_bird]

I'm surprised you usually do get carbonation after only a week, anyway. The few times I've cracked before three weeks, it's usually been virtually nothing.

 

[ayrton]

Yeah, I know a week seems a short amount of time, but corn sugar always comes through that way. I only used DME because I forgot to pick up corn sugar the last time I was at my LHBS. I'll be patient and wait it out; I just wanted to see if others have had this experience. Thanks all!

Edit: Walker - so a higher gravity shouldn't account for less priming sugar? It worries me that the yeast will have too much sugar to feast upon when they wake back up to carbonate. I don't want a closet full of glass shards and sticky beer.

 

[Walker]

Edit: Walker - so a higher gravity shouldn't account for less priming sugar? It worries me that the yeast will have too much sugar to feast upon when they wake back up to carbonate. I don't want a closet full of glass shards and sticky beer.

My take on this is that your yeast has attenuated as far as they are going to attenuate. Yes, there is more sugar in there that could be eaten, but they aren't going to eat it. They are leaving 20% of the sugar behind.

When you add more sugar, they start eating again, but they still leave 20% of it behind.

This may or may not be correct thinking, but I had a stout that ended up with a very high FG, so I cut back my priming sugar thinking that some of the sugar that was there contrributing my my high FG would be consumed during conditioning.

I ended up with a lot of pretty flat stout.

Anyway, don't take what I say as fact. It's just my opinion and I'm often wrong about things that I have not done proper research on.

-walker

 

[Torchiest]

Having brewed the same recipe multiple times and using DME for half of the batches and corn sugar for the other half of the batches, I'd like to put my $0.02 cents in here and claim that this "superior carbonation" thing is a myth.

I'm planning on trying my first DME priming tonight. I've read all these rave reviews about DME for priming. Would you say there is no discernible difference, or just nothing significant enough to worry about?

 

[Blender]

I will throw my opinion in here and confirm that there is not a significant difference in priming with DME versus corn sugar.

 

[Yooper]

I have done corn sugar and DME and there is no difference that I can see, taste or smell.

Lorena

 

[slacker]

My take on this is that your yeast has attenuated as far as they are going to attenuate. Yes, there is more sugar in there that could be eaten, but they aren't going to eat it. They are leaving 20% of the sugar behind.

When you add more sugar, they start eating again, but they still leave 20% of it behind.

This may or may not be correct thinking, but I had a stout that ended up with a very high FG, so I cut back my priming sugar thinking that some of the sugar that was there contrributing my my high FG would be consumed during conditioning.

I ended up with a lot of pretty flat stout.

Anyway, don't take what I say as fact. It's just my opinion and I'm often wrong about things that I have not done proper research on.

-walker

Well actually specific gravity is measuring more than just the fermentable sugar content of the beer. It's really just comparing the density of whatever you're measuring to the density of water (1.000). Those extra points are just measuring the other components of the beer besides fermentables. Being a stout, I'm not surprised that it's FG is 1.020. It probably contains a lot of dextrins and proteins that aren't fermentable by yeast.

 

[ayrton]

Well actually specific gravity is measuring more than just the fermentable sugar content of the beer. It's really just comparing the density of whatever you're measuring to the density of water (1.000). Those extra points are just measuring the other components of the beer besides fermentables. Being a stout, I'm not surprised that it's FG is 1.020. It probably contains a lot of dextrins and proteins that aren't fermentable by yeast.

It's a tripel.

 

[Walker]

I'm planning on trying my first DME priming tonight. I've read all these rave reviews about DME for priming. Would you say there is no discernible difference, or just nothing significant enough to worry about?

No discernable difference at all for carbonation. Your bubbles are just CO2 dissolved in the beer. The CO2 that is in there doesn't know or care where it came from, so it isn't going to behave any differently regardless of whether it came from DME, corn sugar, or out of a big metal tank.

The only difference you might notice is in the flavor and body of the beer simply due to the fact that you are adding more malt to the brew when you use DME.

Maybe the rave reviews you saw were really remarking on flavor/body and not the actual carbonation.

 

[Biermann]

Overall, I agree that there is not a lot of discernable difference in taste between Dextrose and DME, however, I think Dextrose "lighten's" the flavor just a bit. DME also takes forever to carb--I had a pale ale that I bottled with DME that took a good month to carb, and then the yeast ended up in funny little clumps at the bottom of the bottles (but I blame that partially on the strain).

I bottle my hefeweizens (if and when I do bottle) with wheat DME, but otherwise, I stick to dextrose. I don't like waiting 3-4 weeks for carbonation (too impatient).

 

[Torchiest]

Well, I've used dextrose, brown sugar, and molasses, and all three have carbonated to acceptable levels after one week. I have yet to experience any flat beers, and I kinda don't want to start. Maybe I'll save my pricey DME for starters and just use molasses or brown sugar for my stout.

 

[Evan!]

I bottled my tripel a little over a week ago. Its FG was 1.020, and since that was so high, I decided to use only 1 cup of DME instead of 1-1/4 cup. Over one week later, I've got zip. With corn sugar, I always had significant carbonation after that amount of time. The bottles are stored in a closet that is probably between 65 - 70 degrees all the time. Should I be concerned? Does DME require more time to carbonate? I should mention that I *did* hear a slight release of gas when I opened the bottle.

A) Even if your FG is higher, that's no reason to skimp on the priming sugar. More than likely, alot of that existing sugar is unfermentable, meaning that it won't contribute to your carbonation either way. In my personal experience, the only time I'd suggest using less priming sugar is if you're stupid/impatient enough to bottle before fermentation is complete, like, say, if you're steeping a bunch of peaches and mangoes in the secondary...and, say, for example, there's sugar trapped inside the peach and mango slices...and, perhaps, maybe, some of that sugar transfers to the bottles...and then, possibly, every single goddamned bottle ends up being a gusher. But that's all just a hypothetical...

B) 65-70f is pretty good. Personally, my stuff has been taking a LONG time to carbonate since winter rolled around and my basement is a steady 58-60f +/-. Since I'm out of corn sugar, but I always have extract, I've been using DME lately. I dunno, maybe it does take longer than corn sugar, but it's hard to tell since my switch to DME coincided with the drop in temps, so it's probably a little of both. All I know is that, during the summer, I was priming with corn sugar and my basement was at least 75f...and most of my beers were carbonated within 5 days...while these days, it takes at least a month to see anything. I bottled my Wheat Doppelbock on October 29th, and it's as still as the day I bottled it. Well, it does have a little hiss when I pop a bottle, so I know it's working, but still...

C) If you are aging any brews for extended periods in secondary, I would recommend adding a small amount of rehydrated dry yeast at bottling, so that it doesn't take 3 months for carbonate. FYI.

 

[fiddup_is_a_middup]

Ive never tried using DME for carbing, but I've heard that DME provides finer carb bubbles. Is that true?

 

[Orfy]

My OG was 1.100, and my FG was 1.020, giving me 80% attenuation, which is just right for the yeast I used. Not much I could do about it.

That explains it. Target met.

 

[Biermann]

Ive never tried using DME for carbing, but I've heard that DME provides finer carb bubbles. Is that true?

I've never seen it. I don't know how one would quantify it, either.

 

[Walker]

Ive never tried using DME for carbing, but I've heard that DME provides finer carb bubbles. Is that true?

Based on physics and chemistry, I don't think it can possibly be true. As I mentioned earlier, the bubbles come from gas that is dissolved in the beer suddenly coming out of solution.

The CO2 produced by corn sugar and DME are identical beasts... it's not like DME produces smaller CO2 molecules or anything.

Now... that being said... perhaps the fact that you used DME to prime and you ended up dumping the hot break of the priming solution into the beer could have some affect on the head, but bubbles are bubbles are bubbles.

Brew on!

-walker

 

[Orfy]

Just a thought. This may be bull**** BUT.....

Adding DME for priming will leave a little extra suspended matter in the Ale due to it not being as fermentable. CO2 bubbles form around or on something. So maybe the extra susoended matter allows the co2 to form more and smaller bubbles.

Why not prime a batch 50% with Corn Sugar and 50% with DME and try it.
Let us know.