First Brew; questions about mistakes.

[Wilson1911]

So for my first brew I am making a Belgian Tripel using the Brewers Best kit.

My mistake was I used my bottling container with the tap (thoroughly sterilized) as my 'primary' fermenting container. So now I am uncertain how to handle this.

Should I siphon the contents to my other container and treat that as my secondary and siphon to fill the bottles? Or is it okay to transfer it more than once? I am worried I may lose too much yeast in the process and have trouble carbonating the beer.

Also I hear a lot of different times for the fermentation process, currently its been fermenting for 11 days and I am looking to transfer it. I'm rather anxious to finish this brew and get started on a new batch now that I understand the process better. What's the minimum amount of time I should need to start bottling?

 

[Calder]

Don't bottle until it is done. That would be when the gravity is stable. Take readings a couple of days apart and when they are the same, it's done.

But ....... Leaving the beer on the yeast for an additional week or more, will improve the beer.

Belgian trippels generally require time to mellow, especially if you didn't have any temperature control.

Your bottling bucket can work as a fermenter. No problem.

 

[Pie_Man]

First off, congrats on the first brew.

There's no minimum time necessarily, your beer is finished when the yeast finish fermenting. This occurs once the gravity stabilizes for several consecutive days. I like to let my ales ferment for at least 3-4 weeks. This has produced good results for me as the beer is completely fermented and the yeast has time to clean up the beer. I also haven't bothered using a secondary fermentation, as I find it unnecessary and don't want to risk contamination during the transfer or have to clean extra equipment. Many of this forum do the same, however, there's nothing really wrong with doing a secondary if that's what you want to do.

I would just say to be patient, I know it's difficult, especially on your first beer, but patience is good thing when it comes to brewing. That's how commercial Belgian Triples are made.

 

[Wilson1911]

Thanks for the responses. I'll leave it in the bottling container and start checking the gravity.

 

[Revvy]

So, since a Tripel doesn't begin to become drinkable for 6 months to a year, what are you going to brew next so that you can actually have something to drink while you're waiting for this beer to come into it's own.

I often caution new brewers from choosing a higher grav beer for their first few batches, since they take time, to carb and to condition.

It's a better idea to brew a session beer, or average grav beer rather than something as big. Patience is a bitch.

Especially for your first batch.

After about two weeks, if the gravity is stable for 2 readings over a three day period I would rack that into a secondary and forget about it for 6 months and immediately brew something that can be ready in the usual 6-8 weeks. Then in 6 months bottle the tripel and give it a couple more months in the bottle, and it will be stunning.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Should I siphon the contents to my other container and treat that as my secondary and siphon to fill the bottles? Or is it okay to transfer it more than once?

You can transfer more than once. In general, you want to minimize transfers because of potential for oxidation and contamination, but there are always exceptions.

I am worried I may lose too much yeast in the process and have trouble carbonating the beer.

Don't worry about this. At fermenting temps, you would have to leave it for a long while (certainly longer than a month) before you would drop out enough to have carbonation problems. Even when the beer looks totally clear, you have millions of yeast cells hanging out in there. I've heard Jamil Z reference a number of times on the brewing network how Sierra Nevada does their bottling conditioning... they filter out all the yeast, and then add back yeast for carbonating at a rate which would be equivalent to 1/5 of a vial of white labs in a 5 gallon fermenter. So you really don't need much yeast at all for carbonation.

 

[Transamguy77]

I purchased my stuff used and both my buckets had faucets i have since purchased 2 more buckets.

I also typically leave my beer in primary for 3+ weeks and have had great results especially when racking due to a tight yeast cake.

You have a couple of options, you can head to your LHBS and get another bottling bucket AND another kit and put it your bucket without a faucet, you can get a food grade bucket from a local bakery (I get mine from a local Giant) and put a faucet in it yourself.

Congrats on your first brew and welcome to the addiction!

 

[BOBrob]

A TRIPLE!? For your first brew! Listen to Revvy, you have a long wait. But it will be real tasty if you can wait that long. I have spigots on all six buckets, they come in handy for taking samples. I only remove the top when I siphon for bottling or A rare secondary.Welcome to HBT.& Cheers

 

[Taypo]

Grats on the first brew, pretty ballsy to go with a tripel right out of the gate! Your patience level is way better than mine was at first brew point. Take a look at some quick session beers to brew next - Austin Homebrew has a bunch of premade session beer kits that you can turn around pretty quickly.

As a side note, I grew up in the 'Cuse. I miss going to Orange games in the Dome, but I sure dont miss the winters...

 

[unionrdr]

Both my primaries & bottling bucket have spigots. They just make things easier when taking hydrometer samples,racking,bottling rigs,etc. And the yeast cake should be compacted well enough to not get sucked up when racking to secondary or bottling bucket. That's why it's good to wait till a stable FG is reached in primary,then give another 3-7 days to clean up by-products & settle out more. Then rack.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I have a few questions. First, what type of yeast comes in this kit? Second, how much yeast is it? Finally, what temperature is the air in the area you fermented in?

Contrary to most in this thread, I think a Belgian is a great beer to start with. The phenolic and ester character that is common to Belgian beers means that you have much more latitude with fermentation temps and pitching rates while staying within the loose boundaries of the style. So long as your temp was below 70º in the room, and the yeast was an 11g dry yeast packet, you will be good to go.

If that is the case (11g of dry yeast, and reasonable temps) you do not need to wait 6 months to drink this beer. I would recommend waiting for this beer to stay inthe fermenter for 14 days; at that point it will be fully attenuated and the yeast will have reabsorbed all they are going to (appreciably). I would then transfer to a second fermenter (whatever you have, but at this point a carboy would be best to limit oxygen exposure after the yeast have stopped there active cycle). Let it sit in there until it is clear, then transfer back to you bottling bucket and bottle away.

So long as you get it in bottles before the three month time frame, your beer will still have enough viable cells in suspension to fully carbonate the beer in a reasonable time frame. Letting the beer sit in secondary will not be a problem, so you don't have to rush if you don't want to. After two weeks in the second fermenter (clearing tank) you will likely be good to go. Obviously, this is all dependent on your brewday processes, the yeast, the amount of oxygen, and myriad other reasons.

I would not wait 6 months (or 2 months for that matter) unless you want to do an extended aging process intentionally (aging will mellow high notes, meld flavors, and generally make the beer more cohesive and reduce the separation between flavors and experiences in the beer). Sometimes aging is desirable and awesome. Sometimes not. For your very first beer, I would say drink that sucker.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

So for my first brew I am making a Belgian Tripel using the Brewers Best kit.

My mistake was I used my bottling container with the tap (thoroughly sterilized) as my 'primary' fermenting container. So now I am uncertain how to handle this.

Should I siphon the contents to my other container and treat that as my secondary and siphon to fill the bottles? Or is it okay to transfer it more than once? I am worried I may lose too much yeast in the process and have trouble carbonating the beer.

Also I hear a lot of different times for the fermentation process, currently its been fermenting for 11 days and I am looking to transfer it. I'm rather anxious to finish this brew and get started on a new batch now that I understand the process better. What's the minimum amount of time I should need to start bottling?

The best answer is 'it depends'. If the yeast cake/trub is below your spigot, then you can just transfer right from there. Sanitize the spigot, some tubing and the bucket/carboy/better bottle that you're transferring into and then open it up. The risk of damaging your beer by doing this is quite low. If you're not comfortable doing that or the yeast cake is above your spigot, then you could just use an auto siphon to transfer the beer to a secondary container.

Even if you do transfer it twice you will still have plenty of yeast. My first 50 batches or so were all left in primary for 1 week, transferred to secondary for 2 weeks, then transferred to a bottling bucket and carbonation was never an issue for me in regards to transferring beer more than one time.

As for fermentation time, that is largely dependent on the style, the yeast you used and how much yeast you pitched. A Tripel should finish in the range of 1.008 to 1.014. Take a hydrometer reading every day for a few days to determine if fermentation is still happening. If your gravity is still dropping, then leave it for a few days and start the hydrometer readings again. If your hydrometer readings remain constant, then you're done and you can do what you want with it. Some like to let beers sit around, others like to proceed with whatever their next step is. I've done and still do, both. My beers usually sit around in primary for 4-8 weeks not because they need to, but because I don't have the time to get to them sooner.

Despite its potentially high abv, this is a style that I've won competition awards with a few times and each time the beer was given 2 weeks in primary followed by 2-4 weeks of slow carb/crash cooling before being bottled and sent off to a competition at around 6 weeks old.

Hope this helps!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Also, If you want to use the spigot you can just collect the trub that comes out first in a pitcher, then transfer the clear beer that follows into the second vessel.

 

[RM-MN]

Since several posters have told you that you need to wait a long time for your tripel to mature for good drinking let me be the one to suggest you get yourself another fermenter bucket or even several and start another beer that will be ready to drink sooner while you give the tripel the time it needs.

 

[PseudoChef]

So, since a Tripel doesn't begin to become drinkable for 6 months to a year...

citation needed

To the OP: as some others have stated, proper yeast health and pitching rates along with fermentation temperatures yield much better results than trying to sit around and wait for your mistakes to mellow out, which seems to take an unnecessarily long amount of time for some.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

If you do want to go the extended aging route, I highly recommend Orfy's mild. You can have that one grain to glass in 14-18 days.

 

[RCCOLA]

I looked at every Tripel recipe in the database and can't find one that needs aging over 3 months.

2.5 mths: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/un-tripel-43011/

2 weeks: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/karmeliet-clone-226744/

1.75 mths (dubbel): https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/vespers-abbey-dubbel-171890/

3 months: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/belgian-tripel-65560/

1.75 mths: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/belgian-tripel-72110/

2 weeks: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/belgian-triple-207062/

 

[Revvy]

I've always found that Midwest Supplies had the most realistic timeframes for their kits and recipes...They're not afraid of losing sales by telling the truth about how long something realistically takes.

Midwest Supply's Belgian Tripel Kit

**Due to the amount of fermentable sugars it is strongly recommended to leave in secondary fermenter for 9-12 months to allow flavors to properly blend.

I stand by Lazy Llama's chart about how long something takes.

And a Tripel is a high OG beer, in case you hadn't noticed.....

*shrug*

 

[RCCOLA]

I've always found that Midwest Supplies had the most realistic timeframes for their kits...

They also recommend racking to secondary after 5-7 days, pitching yeast as long as the wort is below 80F and not bothering to make a starter if you use a Wyeast smack pack. I personally wouldn't be following too much of that good advice they are doling out. *shrug*
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/downloads/18/Belgian Tripel instructions.pdf

 

[Pie_Man]

Wilson - I said it earlier, and I'll say it again, there's really no minimum time for the beer to be ready for bottling. That's a choice that you'll have to make based on when you think the beer is ready. To determine this, you'll first want a stable gravity. Then, you may want to rack to a secondary fermentation to allow the beer time to develop complexity and improved clarity. Give it some time in the secondary fermenter, taste the beer, and if it tastes good to you, then bottle. Remember to practice good sanitation procedures when drawing samples.

I know that many of the great Belgian beers are aged in the bottle, as well as the secondary fermenter before bottling. In my opinion, it couldn't hurt to leave this beer in the secondary fermentation for a few months, but ultimately, you are the brewer and you'll have to determine the best course. Good luck, be patient, brew another batch, and please keep us posted on this one.

 

[Revvy]

They also recommend racking to secondary after 5-7 days, pitching yeast as long as the wort is below 80F and not bothering to make a starter if you use a Wyeast smack pack. I personally wouldn't be following too much of that good advice they are doling out. *shrug*
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/downloads/18/Belgian Tripel instructions.pdf

Well like I said, it doesn't take a genius to realize that a tripel is a higher grav beer. If you like yours like raw rocket fuel, then drink them when you want to. Personally I've found that my tripels taste damn smooth and tasty at around a year, it smooths out that hot alcoholic/cideryness that comes from a younger one.

Some people think Apfelwein is a quick turn around drink too....until they find a year old bottle lying in their closet and realize what it's SUPPOSED to taste likt.

Most folks I know don't think either apfelwien or tripels are palatable until a year either.

 

[JonM]

In the meantime, read this. It's all about those mistakes we've all made and the beer still turned out great. There are some
doozies in here and some fun stories.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

 

[RCCOLA]

Well like I said, it doesn't take a genius to realize that a tripel is a higher grav beer. If you like yours like raw rocket fuel, then drink them when you want to. Personally I've found that my tripels taste damn smooth and tasty at around a year, it smooths out that hot alcoholic/cideryness that comes from a younger one.

You're right. If you're pitching/fermenting a 1.070+ beer at 79F, without a yeast starter then it might take awhile to age out all the flaws you've built into your beer.

Revvy, I'd recommend you try pitching one at 62F with a proper sized yeast starter for the gravity and controlling ferm temps and maybe your beer won't be so bad.

 

[unionrdr]

It's not a matter of it's being "bad" that takes so much aging. It's all about melding flavors that takes time in a heavier bodied brew.

 

[Revvy]

You're right. If you're pitching/fermenting a 1.070+ beer at 79F, without a yeast starter then it might take awhile to age out all the flaws you've built into your beer.

Revvy, I'd recommend you try pitching one at 62F with a proper sized yeast starter for the gravity and controlling ferm temps and maybe your beer won't be so bad.

I DO brew beer with plenty of yeast, use proper temp control, the right amount of oxygen. AND leave my beer plenty of time to do what it needs to AND I win awards for them, and get great reviews for my beers.

All the stuff that I recommend even without talking about longer timeframes and patience.

Back when I used to just use the right amount of yeast, used proper temp control, and oxygen, but tried for the quick turnover that you seem to believe so highly in, I didn't do as well in comps, nor did I necessarily get as great of reviews for my beers, nor did I particularly think my beers were all that great....drinkable maybe, but not great.

Then I started to leave my beers longer, and guess what? My scores got higher (even on the same previously brewed recipes,) I started getting comments from judges with terms like "jewel like appearance" and "Crisp clean taste." "Is this homebrew? Tastes like a commercial beer."

Only from leaving my beer in longer......

I now brew with a couple bjcp judges who can be critical bastards where commercial and homebrew are concerned, and they consistently cite my beers as among their favorites. If they don't like something of mine they tell me, and for the vast majority of my beers, the love to drink them, socially, not just in contests.

So I must be on to something. And I;m not the only one, quite a lot of folks on here, even some who started out as trolls, tried leaving their beers alone longer, and they seem to like how their beers turn out now....Like THIS thread...and this one.

Maybe you should try it sometime, you might be surprised...

 

[RCCOLA]

See, I started out and have progressed in the other direction. I used to pitch hot, ferment hot and then leave the beer on the cake to "clean up" the flaws I had put in the beer from an improper fermentation process.

Then, I started following advice given by Yooper, Biermuncher, BK, and Pseudochef (who has a PhD in yeast biology BTW) and started pitching cool, the correct amt of yeast, controlling ferm temps, using RO water adding ions to style, and controlling pH in the mash.

Guess what happened? My beer didn't have a bunch of off-flavors to clean up anymore and I have been able to brew and bottle my beers within 10-14 days of pitching yeast--most at 10.

So, when I see a noob (on his first batch) being told he's going to have to wait a year (seriously a year?) to drink his first beer, it strikes me as being a bit irresponsible and not particularly helpful to that brewer.

Take that as you will, but I'm out. If you'd like to argue further, just quote posts #s 11, 12, and 15 above and have at it. You can also go to the recipe database I listed in post #17, dig up all the recipes above and tell them how they were all wrong as well.

 

[Revvy]

I'm not going to argue anymore about this with you. You believe one thing, I believe another.

I just came from dinner with a bunch of brewers, oh not just a bunch of noobs, but some of the guys that own a couple homebrewshops in town, another who teaches the bjcp classes as well as homebrewing as adult ed through a couple communtiy colleges, another who publishes the local craft brewing magazine, which also covers the homebrew scene in my area.

I asked them about Tripels, and they all said the same thing 6-12 months is about the right timeframe for tripels....One of the guys who owns one of the shops and they sell their own kits, said their kits say the same thing on the instruction, it benefits from 6-12 months secondary and or bottle conditioning.

SO you may think I'm being irresponisble, I think I'm being realistic, especially since I can't count the times where a "christmas brewer" came on here all dissapointed that the tripel or barelywine that they chose as their first batch tasted like rocket fuel because they believed it would be ready in a week or two...and it wasn't.

So I'm gonna stick with my guns on this....I stand by what I said about his tripel and I'm sure you'll do the same. Oh well. That's life, people don't always agree.

 

[LouisvilleBrews]

Despite its potentially high abv, this is a style that I've won competition awards with a few times and each time the beer was given 2 weeks in primary followed by 2-4 weeks of slow carb/crash cooling before being bottled and sent off to a competition at around 6 weeks old.

Hope this helps!

yeah, drink your first beer. don't be afraid that it's missing something because it hasn't sat for 2 years.

 

[Calder]

Contrary to most in this thread, I think a Belgian is a great beer to start with. The phenolic and ester character that is common to Belgian beers means that you have much more latitude with fermentation temps and pitching rates while staying within the loose boundaries of the style. So long as your temp was below 70º in the room, and the yeast was an 11g dry yeast packet, you will be good to go.

What dry yeast turns out a decent Belgian. Not T58!

Personally I've found that my tripels taste damn smooth and tasty at around a year, it smooths out that hot alcoholic/cideryness that comes from a younger one.

I've never had a 'hot' beer. I do ferment hot (try to keep about 74 F), and use a swamp cooler to prevent run-aways. All mine have been fine when carbed. I try to keep some longer, but they are just so tasty. But .... I have hidden a case from most batches and have been amazed at how they taste around 9 months. Not sure if I have any that are 12 months in the bottle though.

I have been able to brew and bottle my beers within 10-14 days of pitching yeast--most at 10.

That's young. They will still have some fines from the grains in suspension that will quickly destroy the head. I bet if you left them in the fermenter for another 4 weeks you would have a head that stayed the whole way down the glass.

 

[Revvy]

I've never had a 'hot' beer. I do ferment hot (try to keep about 74 F), and use a swamp cooler to prevent run-aways. All mine have been fine when carbed. I try to keep some longer, but they are just so tasty. But .... I have hidden a case from most batches and have been amazed at how they taste around 9 months. Not sure if I have any that are 12 months in the bottle though.

The term "hotly alcoholic" has nothing to do with the temp a beer is brewed at it's just a term for that raw alcoholic jet fuel taste that some really strong beers/wines/even spirits have. It really just means it needs some time to smooth out.

For the flavors to come together, and to mellow.....

If you've ever had moonshine, and then had "x" years old bourbon that sat in oak barrels folks should understand the difference in terms of aging and smoothening out a beer, especially a high grav one. Even the difference between and Jack, or any bourbon and whatever special "aged" bourbon they sell.

It has nothing to do with "brewing mistakes" as some folks seem to think.

In the case of a tripel, a barleywine or any high gravity beer, especially a tripel because of the sugar in it, that thins the body and makes the alcohol more pronounced.

So that's why many folks, not just me, say that something like a tripel needs a few months...Not because the brewer did ANYTHING wrong....just because it's strong.

But hey, if folks think taking a straw drinking a beer right out of the fermenter is a good idea, it's their perogative....