First Batch Questions

[3 Dawg Night]

Post edit: This turned into more of a dissertation than I had planned, so my apologies for the length.

Hey, guys! I've enjoyed reading through the forum. Homebrewing is something I've wanted to try for years, but for one reason or another, I never got around to it until now. Since we're all teleworking and social distancing, I figured now was as good a time as ever to order some equipment and ingredients and give it a try. I wanted to just dip my toes in the water first to see if it suits me, so I bought equipment to brew a few one gallon batches. If I find that I enjoy it (so far so good), I'll upgrade to larger batches.

I brewed my first batch, an all-grain amber ale, on Friday, from a recipe and instructions I found online:

1 lb Pale Ale malt
0.75 lb Caramel 20L malt
0.25 lb CaraMunich malt
0.15 oz Cluster hops (60 min)
0.15 oz Cluster hops (20 min; plus 1/4 tsp Irish Moss)
0.15 oz Cluster hops (0 min)
California Ale yeast

Mash in @ 148-153 degF for 60 min.
Mash out @ 170 degF for 10 min.

I started my brew day by thoroughly sanitizing everything with StarSan. The mash and sparge went off without a hitch. After sparging, I had 1.5 gal of wort.

I had a little trouble controlling my hop boil. My gas stove has an oversized "power burner" in the middle of the four normal-sized burners. I used that, and the wort started boiling, but after 10 minutes or so, I never got the hot break, just TONS of coarse bubbles on top. I had to stir frequently to keep it from boiling over. I played around with the temperature a bit, and I discovered that the burner is so large that was putting most of the heat around the sides of the pot. Once I turned the heat down so that the flames stayed under the pot, my hot break happened almost instantly.

After the 60 minute boil (actually, a little bit more because of the issues above), I cooled it in an ice bath in my sink, down to 75 degF in about 15 minutes. I ended up with less than a gallon of wort. I would say that I had ~0.75 gal, just eyeballing it, so I added tap water to bring it up to a gallon. I took a hydrometer reading, adjusted for temperature, and got an OG of 1.039. Target OG was 1.051. Hmm. Checked it again: 1.039 again.

I put the wort in my fermentation bucket, aerated vigorously with a whisk for five minutes (good foam on top), and pitched half a packet of White Labs California Ale yeast. Put the lid on, filled and fitted my airlock, and put it in the corner of my bedroom, near the thermostat set to 68-73 degF.

24 hours: No airlock activity (I know, not a reliable indicator of fermentation), and no yeasty smell.

48 hours: No airlock activity, and no yeasty smell.

72 hours: No airlock activity, and no yeasty smell. I decided to have a peek. No bubbles, foam, ring, or any other indication that has happened. I decided to pitch the other half of the PurePitch pouch, squeezing every bit of yeast out (like a toothpaste tube). I also swirled the bucket for about a minute to mix in the yeast and (hopefully) add some more oxygen.

84 hours: Bubbles (~2/minute) in the airlock, and a slight yeast smell!

96 hours (now): No airlock activity, and I can't smell any yeast.

Finally, to my questions:

1) Could over-boiling my wort cause an issue? What effect would topping up with 25% water have?

2) Why was my OG so far off? I think I should have given the wort/water mixture a good stir before taking my gravity reading. If I got more water than wort in my sample, would that cause it to be off by that much?

3) WHAT THE HECK ARE MY YEAST DOING? I know, RDWHAHB and all that, but this is my first batch, so I don't HAHB. I should probably just embrace the RDW part, but should I open my fermenter back up and take a gravity reading? Or, should I let it have its full week in primary and wait to take a gravity reading when I rack it to secondary?

Hopefully the collective wisdom of the group can either set my mind at ease or tell me what I did wrong. Thanks!

 

[RM-MN]

1. No. Some of us boil for 90 to 120 minutes with no problem. That just boils off more water, adds color due to the Maillard reaction, and make sure to isomerize all the hop oils for bittering.

2. Wort is quite a bit denser than water so getting a complete mixing is difficult. That may be the only cause of the low OG. The other is that the efficiency can be lower than expected due to incomplete starch conversion from a poorly crushed grain or from leaving wort in the boil kettle when trying to separate the hops debris.

3. I don't know what your yeast are doing. The normal thing is to put the cooled wort into the fermenter, agitate it to get some oxygen dissolved, then add the yeast. I would expect to see activity within 24-30 hours. If the yeast was old there may be less viable cells and it would take longer for it to propagate to the level needed for fermentation. Leave the beer right where it is for a minimum of 10 days before taking a gravity sample, then 2 or 3 days later take a second and if the two reading match and are near the expected FG go ahead and bottle the beer. Notice that I did not mention secondary. It isn't necessary and can do more harm to your beer than any gain from it will ever offset.

 

[coonmanx]

So you used liquid yeast? Am I right in thinking that? Was it out of date? I once had a bad pack of liquid yeast that did not go off. After 48 hours you should have probably pitched a different yeast.

At this point that wort has been sitting for 4 days and may no longer be any good. I guess you could always throw in a small bit of dry yeast and see what happens.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

Leave the beer right where it is for a minimum of 10 days before taking a gravity sample, then 2 or 3 days later take a second and if the two reading match and are near the expected FG go ahead and bottle the beer. Notice that I did not mention secondary. It isn't necessary and can do more harm to your beer than any gain from it will ever offset.

Thanks! Just so I'm clear, are you suggesting that secondary fermentation is never required? My understanding was that secondary will allow the yeast to better clean up after themselves, improving the flavor of the beer. Is it better just to leave it in primary for two weeks?

 

[3 Dawg Night]

So you used liquid yeast? Am I right in thinking that? Was it out of date?

Yes, it was White Labs WLP001 California Ale. I don't remember the date, but it wasn't old. I ordered from Northern Brewer and brewed within about three days of receiving it (and refrigerated it until then). It had been out of the fridge (on the counter) for about six hours before going in the wort.

 

[IslandLizard]

How big is that bucket?

We're not in sub freezing temps anymore, or in mid-summer heat either, so shipping should not have caused trouble, so your yeast should have been OK, especially pitching half a sleeve into a gallon. A 2-day lag period is not abnormal without making a fresh starter first. Heck, many of us have made starters larger than your batch.

I know taking hydrometer samples from a small batch is taking a big cut out of your beer enjoyment later. Is there a chance it fermented out while you weren't looking?

Especially in light of your recipe...
1 pound of base malt and 1 pound (50%) of crystal?
That's gonna be some sweet beer. There's not much to ferment.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Secondary fermentation is not needed. You won't find many brewers still using them.
I didn't find in your post, are you fermenting in a plastic bucket or is it clear? Can you see the bottom?
What I am getting to is if it is clear, then you will see a large amount of trub and yeast on the bottom... telling you a fermentation did occur. Is it possible your airlock was not sealed properly, and therefore the pressure escaped instead of going through the bubbler?

 

[3 Dawg Night]

How big is that bucket?

It's a two-gallon bucket.

I know taking hydrometer samples from a small batch is taking a big cut out of your batch. Is there a chance it fermented out while you weren't looking?

I poured my sample back into my fermenter afterward. Hydrometer, cup, etc. were all sanitized.

Especially in light of your recipe...
1 pound of base malt and 1 pound (50%) of crystal?
That's gonna be some sweet beer. There's not much to ferment.

So, what I'm hearing is that maybe I started with not the greatest recipe? I just Googled "amber ale recipes" and picked one that looked not-too-complicated. What would be a good choice for a beginner-friendly amber, if I end up having to throw this batch out and restart?

 

[3 Dawg Night]

I didn't find in your post, are you fermenting in a plastic bucket or is it clear? Can you see the bottom?

It's a white plastic bucket. I can't see the bottom.

Is it possible your airlock was not sealed properly, and therefore the pressure escaped instead of going through the bubbler?

Oh, literally anything is possible at this point. At about the 18-hour mark, I noticed that my airlock was slightly askew (but inserted). I asked my 7-year-old if he knew anything about it, and he said he had pulled it out to see what it was but had stuck it right back in.

I can press down on the lid and get bubbles in the airlock. Would that indicate that the lid is sealed sufficiently?

 

[RM-MN]

It's a two-gallon bucket.



I poured my sample back into my fermenter afterward. Hydrometer, cup, etc. were all sanitized.



So, what I'm hearing is that maybe I started with not the greatest recipe? I just Googled "amber ale recipes" and picked one that looked not-too-complicated. What would be a good choice for a beginner-friendly amber, if I end up having to throw this batch out and restart?

So far nobody has mentioned throwing out that beer. While I would not want to drink that as is, you could brew another beer with no crystal malt at all and then blend the two. Something like 2 1/2 pounds of pale ale malt, .15 oz Cluster hops at 60 and .15 oz Cluster at 5. You could use the same kind of yeast or you could use one of the dry yeasts like US-05. Let it ferment, then mix the two in the bottling bucket.

 

[IslandLizard]

84 hours: Bubbles (~2/minute) in the airlock, and a slight yeast smell!

That's a sign of fermentation, as is a krausen (foam) layer on top of the beer, or the dried-on krausen ring it leaves behind on the fermenter wall when it's done. So something was happening there.

If it was in a warm area it's very possible it's done. Never use a "lack of" airlock activity as a sign that nothing is happening.

For "inspections" don't lift the lid, peek down the airlock hole instead, after removing the airlock temporarily.
I guess your 7-year old assistant brewer discovered that too.

It's a two-gallon bucket.

Alright, I had visions of a 6.5 gallon ale pail with some beer barely covering the bottom...

I poured my sample back into my fermenter afterward. Hydrometer, cup, etc. were all sanitized.

As long as you're meticulous with that, you may get away with doing that for awhile...

 

[IslandLizard]

you could brew another beer with no crystal malt at all and then blend the two. Something like 2 1/2 pounds of pale ale malt, .15 oz Cluster hops at 60 and .15 oz Cluster at 5.

That's a good idea!

You could use the same kind of yeast or you could use one of the dry yeasts like US-05.

You could ferment another batch on the yeast of this one, or better, use only 1/4 of the cake, save the rest for other batches. That is, once proven this beer doesn't taste sour or foul.

Do you have another bucket to ferment in? Or a gallon glass jug to put this beer in until the 2nd one is done?

 

[coonmanx]

How big was that bucket?

The reason I ask is because if you are doing a one gallon batch in a five gallon bucket then the activity will be a lot harder to spot because of all of the extra space in that bucket.

 

[ike8228]

I’ll take a whack a few things I did not see addressed or that could be expanded.

1. Don’t add your sample back in, drink it to take a taste. Gives you a tease and tells you if something is wrong. I just use the little plastic case the hydrometer came in (depends on type of case I guess) you only need about 1-1.5 Oz for that. Pouring it back in could introduce bacteria.

2. Maybe your bucket lid is not sealed all the way. Some bucket lids have a rubber/foam ring to help seal it. I would suggest go down to the store (if you dare right now) buy yourself a gallon of Carlo Rossi wine for cheap, get drunk on that and use it as your fermenter. (I have 18 of them for doing meads I’d do different flavors ). You’ll be able to see what’s going on with your beer.

3. I suggest always at least rehydrating Yeast if dry even if says don’t. If you can, do a starter to get it going. Use a little DME (boil and cool) if you got it, some sugar would do ok on your scale if you don’t. Could be working in as few as a couple hours. Most will do starters 24-48 hrs before to get the yeast count up. Starters ensure the yeast is good and gives it a head start. I get active visable fermentation inas little as 8 hrs versus 24 when doing a starter. I use 5 gallon glass carboys.

4. Although you started with 1.5 after sparge you lost some to boil/steam and the trub. This is normal. You’ll learn to adjust your brews to account for boil off. Maybe next time top your wort off with an extra 1/4 gallon or so knowing this. This will change as you get bigger better equipment and recipes.

5. I wouldn’t recommend adding straight tap water to top off. You should have boiled it and cooled it first. Gets rid of potential bacteria and gases out oxygen and other stuff.

6. Since you mixed in water and took a reading, if you did not mix well it would throw off your reading. However if you got more water than wort (I think what you said) it would be lower not higher (which I think it was 1.051). Water pure 68Fish should be 1.000. Calibrate your hydrometer with water as such. Account for variance there and apply to your reading. This may help figure that out. Also make sure it isn’t touching and getting caught up on the side of the container. This will throw it off too.your target OG and FG are not always going to be exact. Within a couple points is ok. If more than 5 or 6 something isn’t quite right. More than that something is off.

 

[OnePlate]

I used my Google-Fu and found the recipe the OP used. There is an error in that recipe, for sure. There's no way it will finish at the listed 1.007, more like 1.0020-23. If it does end up fermenting out and it's drinkable, congrats on your first beer! If it's too sweet and you want to toss it, congrats on your first dumper! Don't get discouraged, there IS a learning curve to all-grain brewing but you'll be fine after a couple batches.

I'm going to suggest that for the next batch(es) of beer you make, use one of the recipes posted here scaled down to 1-gallon or get yourself a copy of Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles. Tried and true recipes that have good feedback or are published will lead to better success and the desire to brew every weekend Jamil's amber ale is pretty tasty, if I remember right.

If you haven't read through it yet, there's a lot of good tips for small-batch brewers in the 1-Gallon Brewers Unite! thread.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

If it does end up fermenting out and it's drinkable, congrats on your first beer! If it's too sweet and you want to toss it, congrats on your first dumper!

I guess I'll go ahead and let it finish fermenting and then bottle it, with my expectations appropriately lowered. If nothing else, it'll be good practice for later batches!

I'm going to suggest that for the next batch(es) of beer you make, use one of the recipes posted here scaled down to 1-gallon or get yourself a copy of Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles. Tried and true recipes that have good feedback or are published will lead to better success and the desire to brew every weekend Jamil's amber ale is pretty tasty, if I remember right.

I just got a copy of Brewing Classic Styles on my Kindle, so I'll give some of those a try. I'll try the amber for my next batch!

If you haven't read through it yet, there's a lot of good tips for small-batch brewers in the 1-Gallon Brewers Unite! thread.

I've looked through there a bit, but I'll spend some more time there. I can already tell that I'm going to need to upgrade to at least 3-gallon batches. That seems like it will be the sweet spot where I'll still be able to brew on my stove, but I'll end up with enough bottles to be worth the time!

 

[RM-MN]

The decision to brew 3 gallon batches on you stove depends on 2 things. How big is your boil pot, and can your stove boil that much liquid. I have a 5 gallon pot and find that it is minimal for a 3 gallon batch even with sparging but my stove has a high output burner and can boil whatever I can fit into the 5 gallon pot.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

Secondary fermentation is not needed. You won't find many brewers still using them.

I've been reading a lot on the debate between primary+secondary vs. primary only, and I'm relatively convinced that with secondary fermentation, the risks outweigh the potential rewards (at least at my level of experience and proficiency). So, I'm planning on skipping the secondary fermenter. If my original plan was:

1 week primary fermentation
2 weeks secondary fermentation
2 weeks bottle conditioning

Should I now go with:

Option A
3 weeks primary fermentation
2 weeks bottle conditioning

or

Option B
1 week primary fermentation
4 weeks bottle conditioning

or

Option C
1 week primary fermentation
2 weeks bottle conditioning

I'm just trying to figure out what "skipping secondary" really means. I *think* it's probably Option A, but I want to see what the collective wisdom says. Thanks!

 

[coonmanx]

Once it goes into the bottle it should only need about two weeks to carbonate and be ready. Since you are just starting out I would recommend going from primary to bottling. I actually go to secondary at about the three day mark, once the head crashes. I think that in general people leave their beer too long in primary.

But it will be simpler to go from primary to bottle in this case. One or two weeks in primary and then off to the bottles. Two weeks and see if it worked out or not. You will know if you open a bottle and it fizzes. Because that will mean that it carbonated properly. Best of luck. If you are impatient you can always check a bottle for carbonation after about a week's time.

 

[ncbrewer]

"Opinions vary" would be an understatement. I usually go with 18 days primary and two weeks bottle conditioning. But I check gravity two days before bottling and again on bottling day to be sure it's stable. I've had three fermentations that were slow to finish, so I keep checking for stable gravity. I don't want bottle bombs.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I've been reading a lot on the debate between primary+secondary vs. primary only, and I'm relatively convinced that with secondary fermentation, the risks outweigh the potential rewards (at least at my level of experience and proficiency). So, I'm planning on skipping the secondary fermenter. If my original plan was:

1 week primary fermentation
2 weeks secondary fermentation
2 weeks bottle conditioning

Should I now go with:

Option A
3 weeks primary fermentation
2 weeks bottle conditioning

or

Option B
1 week primary fermentation
4 weeks bottle conditioning

or

Option C
1 week primary fermentation
2 weeks bottle conditioning

I'm just trying to figure out what "skipping secondary" really means. I *think* it's probably Option A, but I want to see what the collective wisdom says. Thanks!

No no no... (don't mean this to sound negative...just an emphatic no)
I would never remove beer from a fermenter in less than 3 weeks. And certainly not in one week.
All too many times yeast will start the initial "furious" fermentation... fall out in a few days, and even as much as a whole week later - restart up and have a "secondary" fermentation again. If you was to remove the beer and put in bottles, with more sugar, you will over carbonate the beer significantly and may even result in bottle bombs.
I have brewed many-many beers, and I have never had issues with doing this:
1) Pitch yeast when the beer reaches 70 ish degrees.
2) Store the beer in my chest freezer chamber with an ambient temp. of 60 degrees.
3) Usually in about 2 weeks raise the temp to 68 degrees to encourage any secondary fermentation, which like I say happens sometimes. Usually doesn't do anything.
4) At 3 weeks... bottle. Store at room temp. in a dark place.
5) After a week, put a bottle in the fridge and see how it is coming along. Usually it is reasonably carbed but, depending on style, it usually taste a little "green".
6) Depending on above, try another bottle a week later. Almost always it is fully carbed and taste great. (Again depending on style)

 

[3 Dawg Night]

No no no... (don't mean this to sound negative...just an emphatic no)
I would never remove beer from a fermenter in less than 3 weeks. And certainly not in one week.
All too many times yeast will start the initial "furious" fermentation... fall out in a few days, and even as much as a whole week later - restart up and have a "secondary" fermentation again. If you was to remove the beer and put in bottles, with more sugar, you will over carbonate the beer significantly and may even result in bottle bombs.
I have brewed many-many beers, and I have never had issues with doing this:
1) Pitch yeast when the beer reaches 70 ish degrees.
2) Store the beer in my chest freezer chamber with an ambient temp. of 60 degrees.
3) Usually in about 2 weeks raise the temp to 68 degrees to encourage any secondary fermentation, which like I say happens sometimes. Usually doesn't do anything.
4) At 3 weeks... bottle. Store at room temp. in a dark place.
5) After a week, put a bottle in the fridge and see how it is coming along. Usually it is reasonably carbed but, depending on style, it usually taste a little "green".
6) Depending on above, try another bottle a week later. Almost always it is fully carbed and taste great. (Again depending on style)

So, that sounds an awful lot like my Option A above, right?

 

[ike8228]

I find that 3 weeks in the bottle gives me the best result for carbonation. 2 weeks rarely has the amount I prefer. And I actually always add about 1/2 Oz more sugar than recommended for the style, because I like my beer more fizzy.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I find that 3 weeks in the bottle gives me the best result for carbonation. 2 weeks rarely has the amount I prefer. And I actually always add about 1/2 Oz more sugar than recommended for the style, because I like my beer more fizzy.

Perfect answer. In that you are doing what you want to produce the result you are after.
The beauty of homebrewing. You decide.
Myself, I certainly want the beer to be carbed but I do not like over carbed beer.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

So, I decided to go ahead and rack my beer to secondary today, after eight days in primary. Mainly, I just wanted to free up my primary to brew another batch in a day or two. Going to try a cream ale this time.

I siphoned my amber to a 1-gal jug/carboy, and it looked and smelled like beer! I tried a sip or two of it, and it tasted (more or less) like beer! I'm going to give it two weeks in secondary and then two weeks in the bottle, but I still have hope that I'll have something drinkable in a few weeks!

I was really amazed at the amount to trub left behind in my primary bucket!

 

[3 Dawg Night]

After one week in primary and two weeks in secondary, today was bottling day. It, remarkably, smelled (and tasted) like beer! Bottling went off without a hitch, and now the bottles are in a box in an upstairs closet for the next three weeks. Can't wait!

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Congratulations!.... you should sneak one out after 7 days. It won't be at it's best yet, but by then it will be fairly carbed.
What I do... put it in the freezer for about 30 minutes. This will cold crash all the yeast and any suspended yeast will begin to fall to the bottom. Then put it in the frig for another few hours to allow that yeast to fall out.
Pop it open... you should hear a "pssst" " It should be an audible little pssst in 7 days. If it isn't don't sweat it, sometimes it takes a little longer.
Pour it aggressively, it likely will not have much of a head yet. Go ahead and drink it if it taste good... it should taste a little green and a little yeast bite as well. But should taste good other than that.
Try again after 14 days. You may very well find it is highly drinkable by then. I have drank many a beer after 14 days.
Cheers!!!.... and in no time you will buy that 2nd carboy!...and a 3rd....

 

[Aki]

Glad to hear the beer is turning out well. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that you shouldn’t add tap water post-boil in the future. If I have understood correctly it’d be wise to add it end of boil (so tap water gets boiled as well) or at least to boil that water first - because then all the bacteria water may have had are dead and you don't risk an infection. Not to scare you though, just 2cents from what I’ve read and heard.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

In the

Glad to hear the beer is turning out well. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that you shouldn’t add tap water post-boil in the future. If I have understood correctly it’d be wise to add it end of boil (so tap water gets boiled as well) or at least to boil that water first - because then all the bacteria water may have had are dead and you don't risk an infection. Not to scare you though, just 2cents from what I’ve read and heard.

I would agree: not ideal. But in Joy of Homebrewing, Papazian talks about topping up with cold water to the expected fermentation volume. I don't remember seeing anything about boiling and cooling the water first, but that would probably be better. There were no funky tastes at bottling, so no harm, no foul, right?

 

[ncbrewer]

This is one of the many brewing questions with differing opinions. I've been adding tap water, treated with campden, for 166 batches and haven't had any problems associated with it. I feel good about my water supply, but if I didn't, I would definitely pre-boil.