First all grain brew

[prwillard2]

Hey everyone. Returning to brewing and wanted to do my first all grain batch. I've got 2 boil kettles (only one has a valve, sight glass, thermometer), 2 burners, a 10 gallon cooler MLT, preordered an all grain kit from northernbrewer. Also got several carboys and all the things for fermenting. Is there anything that I'm missing?

Just wanted to kick this off right and not mess it up.

 

[user 103238]

What method are you going to use for cooling your wort?

Hey everyone. Returning to brewing and wanted to do my first all grain batch. I've got 2 boil kettles (only one has a valve, sight glass, thermometer), 2 burners, a 10 gallon cooler MLT, preordered an all grain kit from northernbrewer. Also got several carboys and all the things for fermenting. Is there anything that I'm missing?

Just wanted to kick this off right and not mess it up.

 

[prwillard2]

i've got a copper immersion chiller. hopefully that gets it down to close to fermenting temps. otherwise i'll probably put my boil kettle in an ice bath like i did before i had the copper chiller.

i'm thinking about buying a pump and a plate chiller as well.

 

[DannyD]

Manifold to get the wort out?

 

[prwillard2]

Manifold to get the wort out?

from which vessel?


edit: also, is it ok to mash in the grain with just a big metal spoon?

 

[duboman]

Be sure you calibrate your thermometer and hydrometer, mash temperatures are important!
Be sure to pre-calculate your required volumes of strike water and sparge water so you get the right amount of wort, pre-boil
How are you going to sparge, fly or batch?
Be sure to calculate your losses-dead space in MLT and brew kettle so your volumes meet up in the end.

You appear to have all the equipment you need, AG is not about fancy equipment, it's about all of the above. If none of these items are things you are familiar with or have already calculated then you have some more homework to do prior to your first AG session. It is best to figure all this out ahead of time with plain water so your final product turns out the way you want!

If you need clarification on any of the above feel free to ask. If you are using software be sure your equipment profile is properly entered and all the above information is entered as well, otherwise the volumes it calculates for you will all be wrong

 

[prwillard2]

Be sure you calibrate your thermometer and hydrometer, mash temperatures are important!
Be sure to pre-calculate your required volumes of strike water and sparge water so you get the right amount of wort, pre-boil
How are you going to sparge, fly or batch?
Be sure to calculate your losses-dead space in MLT and brew kettle so your volumes meet up in the end.

You appear to have all the equipment you need, AG is not about fancy equipment, it's about all of the above. If none of these items are things you are familiar with or have already calculated then you have some more homework to do prior to your first AG session. It is best to figure all this out ahead of time with plain water so your final product turns out the way you want!

If you need clarification on any of the above feel free to ask. If you are using software be sure your equipment profile is properly entered and all the above information is entered as well, otherwise the volumes it calculates for you will all be wrong

im going to be batch sparging in the cooler. im going to be using the beersmith software as well. one question i have is about volumes. if it's a 5 gallon batch, will my final boil finish at 5 gallons? i always get trub and fallout on the bottom of my carboys and never end up with a full 5 gallons. is this normal?

 

[duboman]

im going to be batch sparging in the cooler. im going to be using the beersmith software as well. one question i have is about volumes. if it's a 5 gallon batch, will my final boil finish at 5 gallons? i always get trub and fallout on the bottom of my carboys and never end up with a full 5 gallons. is this normal?

Yes, this is normal. If you want to BOTTLE a full 5 gallons then you need to work backwards from that amount in calculating your losses and volumes so when everything is compete you get 5 gallons.

For example: my batch size is 6.5 gallons. I bottle 6 gallons every time. To achieve this my pre boil volume is a full 9 gallons. The 2.5 gallon loss is a combination of boil off, kettle loss, trub loss.

If you can pre-calculate all these items in reverse including your dead space in the MLT and grain absorption then beersmith will properly calculate your strike and sparge volumes for you.

It may take a couple batches to dial everything in

 

[prwillard2]

awesome! thanks duboman!

 

[cwi]

Yes, this is normal. If you want to BOTTLE a full 5 gallons then you need to work backwards from that amount in calculating your losses and volumes so when everything is compete you get 5 gallons.

BeerSmith does not account for trub losses correctly, and it is a dirty little secret that you will be beaten down for if you bring it up.

The best way to account for trub/chiller losses (anything post-boil) in BeerSmith is to set trub losses to '0', then increase your batch size (using the scale tool for an existing recipe) to account for trub losses. The only other way is to both enter trub losses AND try to figure out by what percentage that lowers your existing efficiency as defined by BeerSmith as 'to the fermenter'.

That will get you close, but to get it right the first time you brew the new recipe, you also need to decrease the resulting new lower efficiency by a bit, since BeerSmith doesn't calculate trub loss correctly even with correct efficiency numbers. At least that is what I saw by trying to reverse engineer it, since I don't have access to the code. It is a known issue that apparently is considered an non-issue by the developer and fanboys.

This is part of a larger issue with BeerSmith defining efficiency to be 'to the fermenter', instead of 'in the kettle'. Even accounting for this headache, it still doesn't handle the trub loss correctly even when you correct for the efficiency properly. This makes it near impossible to import/export a recipe, even manually, and have it work properly the first time. In the forums, they say this is not an issue, and to just brew it a few times, and you will get closer.

 

[duboman]

BeerSmith does not account for trub losses correctly, and it is a dirty little secret that you will be beaten down for if you bring it up.

The best way to account for trub/chiller losses (anything post-boil) in BeerSmith is to set trub losses to '0', then increase your batch size (using the scale tool for an existing recipe) to account for trub losses. The only other way is to both enter trub losses AND try to figure out by what percentage that lowers your existing efficiency as defined by BeerSmith as 'to the fermenter'.

That will get you close, but to get it right the first time you brew the new recipe, you also need to decrease the resulting new lower efficiency by a bit, since BeerSmith doesn't calculate trub loss correctly even with correct efficiency numbers. At least that is what I saw by trying to reverse engineer it, since I don't have access to the code. It is a known issue that apparently is considered an non-issue by the developer and fanboys.

This is part of a larger issue with BeerSmith defining efficiency to be 'to the fermenter', instead of 'in the kettle'. Even accounting for this headache, it still doesn't handle the trub loss correctly even when you correct for the efficiency properly. This makes it near impossible to import/export a recipe, even manually, and have it work properly the first time. In the forums, they say this is not an issue, and to just brew it a few times, and you will get closer.

Please don't beat me down, I am aware of the short comings with Beersmith and the way to work around it but the fact remains if you do not account for proper losses in your profile, however you choose to do it, then everything involved in calculating is going to be off

 

[cwi]

Please don't beat me down, I am aware of the short comings with Beersmith and the way to work around it but the fact remains if you do not account for proper losses in your profile, however you choose to do it, then everything involved in calculating is going to be off

Claiming BeerSmith has shortcomings... now your really did it. Hopefully the fanboys from the BeerSmith forum don't catch wind.

The issue is that if you don't adjust your brewhouse efficiency down when you increase trub losses (which is not the standard way to do this calc), BeerSmith will only add water (no grain) to offset the trub loss. Even worse, it keeps the displayed OG EXACTLY the same. In the fine print, it compensates for the trub loss by increasing your mash efficiency, sometimes >100%. Mash eff is something you usually don't even look at pre-brew since it is a BeerSmith generated value.

At least if you just forget to account for trub loss, you just end up with less beer. If you actually add in trub losses using the field, and don't reduce your eff, you will end up with watery swill thanks to BeerSmith magically increasing your mash efficiency to 156% so that it can display the same exact OG you would expect without the extra 2 gallons of water it tells you to add.

Keeping the trub loss field at '0' and notating elsewhere how much trub you account for is by far the easiest solution; especially if you wish to share recipes, switch between leaf and pellet hops, modify equipment, etc.

It may take a couple batches to dial everything in

This is what they recommend in the BeerSmith forums, and why it isn't a bug. If you make a change to your equipment resulting in a known amount of loss, you shouldn't have to make a WAG at what your new BeerSmith fantasy definition of efficiency is, or even worse, as they suggest, leave it the same; then brew that same recipe a few times until you get your new correct, in a fantasy sort of way, efficiency number (which is really only good for that recipe). This is a fundamental flaw in BeerSmith, but it is routinely dismissed as a non-issue. Just check BrauKaiser's comment on it.