First AG GF Brewday Reviewed

[glutarded-chris]

My view is that 0.65mm is a good gap. A roller mill should not grind up the husks very much because it is crushing the grains rather than grinding them.

The directions I have call for 0.03 g potassium metabisulfite per gallon of water. I use an inexpensive jewelers scale to measure my brewing salts and hop additions and at 0.3 g for 10 gallons of water, it is close to the accuracy of the scale. I put in a little extra for good measure and try to mix it in well with the water. I let it sit for 30 minutes or so before beginnning to heat.

I think you should mix the grain on sparge steps. You want to wash the sugars from the grain. Igliashon used the underlet method becuase it allowed efficient mixing all the way to the bottom. If you have a lot of grain it can be hard to mix all the way to the bottom. Most of us don't have too much grain to just simply mix by hand, so you can do it either way. I just pour gently on top and stir to the bottom.

I never got violent fermentation with sorghum syrup batches but I have gotten violent ferementation with all grain. It pays to be prepared for an all grain batch, especially for those fermenting around room temp.

 

[DRV]

Thanks Chris for the heads up, I am looking to see some better efficiency with the next batch and I know my mash temperatures were not what I wanted them to be. Next batch I am going to take measurements before and after adding water for the steps to see if there is a big difference, if so I will move the mash around to even things out.

With Potassium Metabisulfite, do you need to boil the water after 30 minutes to precipitate the Chloramine out or do you rack that water out to another vessel?

 

[glutarded-chris]

I just mix it in with my other brewing salts. If i remember correctly, chlorine is volatile so eventually it will evaporate on its own and faster with heat but chloramine won't. I think the metabisulfite chemically combines with the chloramine and chlorine and neutralizes them. Once you add the potassium metabisulfite you just have to give it some time to react.

Campden tablets are essentially the same thing but there was some debate if the binding agents for the tablets were gluten free so i never used them.

 

[DRV]

Thanks Chris, this definitely will help with shorten my brewing schedule, where as I don't have to boil the water first. I can now just run it from the tap through the carbon filter and then add the Potassium Metabisulfite the night before. Boiling times are an issue for me as I am using the burners on a stove, to boil 10 gallon's of water takes 75+ minutes.

I found this excerpt on BYO's website and as you stated are the reaction is independent of boiling. The chloramine is broken down into form's that are not harmful to overall optimal levels for a mash.

http://byo.com/malt/item/902-it-was...lfite-to-the-water-would-clear-the-chloramine

"Although many reducing agents can be used to dechlorinate water, the ones that are most accessible to homebrewers are sodium metabisulfite or its cousin, potassium metabisulfite (commonly found in the Campden tablets used by winemakers). These compounds will remove chlorine from both sodium hypochlorite (bleach) and chloramine treated waters. The reaction converts chlorine into chloride and the sulfite is converted to sulfate. Chloride has no affect on aroma, is found in most water and is added by many brewers in the form of calcium chloride. Likewise, sulfate is a normal constituent of water and is added in the form of calcium sulfate by brewers. When this reaction occurs with chloramines, there are also ammonium ions released into the water. Again, this is no big deal because ammonium ions are found in a brewers mash and come from the malt. Keep in mind, we are talking about very low concentrations of all of these reaction products due to the low concentrations of chlorine and metabisulfite involved in the reaction."

 

[DRV]

Life got busy

Attached is a picture of the final product. I was pleasantly surprised about the success of this brew. There was hints of coffee, chocolate and even raisin.

 

[jmitchell3]

1) Millet does seem to absorb more, now that you mention it. My guess is that it mills differently than barley: I do a triple run on my mill so my millet gets down to a mixture of intact kernels but probably 75% flour (I'd like it to be more flour like but my "cereal killer" mill doesn't go do down low enough, its really meant for barley)

2) Everything I've read is that millet needs be crushed to a flour for highest efficiency. I'm doing this by running my millet thru 3x. Its a mild PITA but I already made the purchase of the mill so I am stuck with that and I consider it penance for a bad decision on my part. Maybe one day I will go to another mill, like Monster, that I hear goes down to a smaller gap.

You're doing BIAB so stuck sparge should not be a problem with a millet crushed to a flour. Rice hulls can be used in non BIAB situations to remedy.

3) You know, I don't think I've seen a hot break either... at least I haven't noticed it. I'll have to monitor that going forward... maybe a millet thing?

Maybe a millet thing. Since then I've brewed a Milk Stout. Yeah then found out I'm pretty lactose intolerant to, so took it to a homebrew festival and dumped the rest. It had this really sour thing going on, think I may have put to much lactose in. anyways.

I'm planning a GF pale ale or IPA now, based on the House IPA HBT thread. Just saw that my LHBS has the WhiteLabs 4300 Optimash enzyme so I'm going to use that in conjunction with a diatase and see how that goes.

 

[jmitchell3]

This sounds Awesome..I have a daughter whom is gluten intolerant and have been looking for a good recipe.. I have a question for you... In your mash schedule you started out high and then reduced temp..Seems backwards..Can you explain this procedure?
Just wondering if it might have anything to do with your not getting the conversion you'd hoped for.
Thanks..and I'm looking forward to some education from you.

Hey there, sorry it took so long for me to respond, for some reason my thread updates weren't posting to my email. weird.

Two things happening here: Gelatinization and Saccharafication. Gelatinization is when the starches become soluble and thus accessible to the enzymes responsible for turning those starches into fermentable sugars. Saccharafication of course is the process of turning those starches into fermentable sugars.

With many gluten free grains, the gelatinization temp is higher than the saccharafication temp. Thus, for decent efficiency, it is necessary to gelatinize the grains first, then rest them at a sacc. rest temp for starch conversion.

Unfortunately, the gelatinization temp for these grains is higher than the operating range for the saccharafication enzymes, and those enzymes start to denature at these higher temps (160-170 or so). That's why with high adjunct barley grists and for most GF grists it is necessary to add supplemental diatase, amylase, or other enzyme to aid in starch conversion after the gelatinization rest is complete and the mash has cooled.

 

[jmitchell3]

GF Batch 1 Update:

Sent it to my local homebrewclub's springfest (AZ Society of Homebrewers is the largest homebrew club in the state, about 270 entries this year in the spring comp) as well as to the NHC comp (denver).

Springfest it scored a 32. One of the judges is our state's only BJCP-ranked Grand Master-ranked Judge. His overall impression: "This is a tasty and interesting beer. It hits the major marks of a blonde ale and I would drink a pint. The slight tartness and odd spicy notes detract from the overall balance of the beer for me. Work to lessen those characters and improve crispness." Takeaways: I used the Fermentis Abbaye ale strain so yeah that's probably the spicy notes!

NHC: Scored 33. Judges specifically noted they docked me 5 points for not specifying the alternative grains used, and another 2 for failing to specify American Blond or Belgian Blond. So it would have been a 40! Not bad!
Judges comments: "Very good american blonde. Noticeably different grain but can't ID"
Second Judge: "Pleasant malt/hop balance. Great alternative beer. Try fruits to gain complexity."

I'll post a recent photo here from my phone.

 

[jmitchell3]

Here's a photo after it cleared out. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1462987185.335351.jpg

 

[Stillraining]

Hey there, sorry it took so long for me to respond, for some reason my thread updates weren't posting to my email. weird.

Two things happening here: Gelatinization and Saccharafication. Gelatinization is when the starches become soluble and thus accessible to the enzymes responsible for turning those starches into fermentable sugars. Saccharafication of course is the process of turning those starches into fermentable sugars.

With many gluten free grains, the gelatinization temp is higher than the saccharafication temp. Thus, for decent efficiency, it is necessary to gelatinize the grains first, then rest them at a sacc. rest temp for starch conversion.

Unfortunately, the gelatinization temp for these grains is higher than the operating range for the saccharafication enzymes, and those enzymes start to denature at these higher temps (160-170 or so). That's why with high adjunct barley grists and for most GF grists it is necessary to add supplemental diatase, amylase, or other enzyme to aid in starch conversion after the gelatinization rest is complete and the mash has cooled.

Awesome thank you! When I'm ready to brew a batch.. I will PM you for some advice. Hopefully you will get that email update quicker...

 

[DRV]

Hey there, sorry it took so long for me to respond, for some reason my thread updates weren't posting to my email. weird.

Two things happening here: Gelatinization and Saccharafication. Gelatinization is when the starches become soluble and thus accessible to the enzymes responsible for turning those starches into fermentable sugars. Saccharafication of course is the process of turning those starches into fermentable sugars.

With many gluten free grains, the gelatinization temp is higher than the saccharafication temp. Thus, for decent efficiency, it is necessary to gelatinize the grains first, then rest them at a sacc. rest temp for starch conversion.

Unfortunately, the gelatinization temp for these grains is higher than the operating range for the saccharafication enzymes, and those enzymes start to denature at these higher temps (160-170 or so). That's why with high adjunct barley grists and for most GF grists it is necessary to add supplemental diatase, amylase, or other enzyme to aid in starch conversion after the gelatinization rest is complete and the mash has cooled.

jmitchell3 thank you very much for this post, this helped me out a lot and now things make a little more sense to me.

When dealing with most wheat based grains is the gelatinization temperature a lot lower and or lower than the saccharafication temperature?

I found this website
http://www.yofermentosingluten.com/#!gluten-free-all-grain-step-mash/c5j9

If this is true in order to mash without the addition of outside enzymes, one would need to first extract the beta and alpha amalyze then get the grain up to the necessary temperature for the gelantization rest and then cool and add back the extracted enzymes? Good Lord

 

[jmitchell3]

jmitchell3 thank you very much for this post, this helped me out a lot and now things make a little more sense to me.

When dealing with most wheat based grains is the gelatinization temperature a lot lower and or lower than the saccharafication temperature?

I found this website
http://www.yofermentosingluten.com/#!gluten-free-all-grain-step-mash/c5j9

If this is true in order to mash without the addition of outside enzymes, one would need to first extract the beta and alpha amalyze then get the grain up to the necessary temperature for the gelantization rest and then cool and add back the extracted enzymes? Good Lord

Yeah, a sort of reverse decoction. With decoction a portion (like 1/3 or so is my understanding, though I've never done it) of the mash is removed and boiled then added back to the main mash to raise it from protein rest temp to sacc. temp. The boiling denatures ALL of the enzymes present in that portion of the mash, but the hot temps cook the grains providing very accessible starches and those always tasty maillard reactions. The rest of the mash will generally have enough enzyme to convert the starches from the entire mash volume.

Looks like that site is recommending a step mash when folks are malting their own grains. Modern malsters are generally producing "well modified" malts which means, in short, many of the reactions that are happening at those lower rests (protein, beta glucan, etc) unnecessary. With home malting, I imagine one doesn't really know the specific stats of the resulting malt, making a step mash kind of a catch all to make sure everything gets done that needs to be done for conversion to take place efficiently and completely. I imagine anything even from Eckert or Grouse will be pretty high quality and relatively well-modified which may make step mashing redundant. I don't have any experience though to back up that assumption so take it with a grain of salt. Or five.

 

[DRV]

My plan for Brew #4 will be to start with 14 lbs of grain with the same ratio, 12 lbs of millet and 2 of rice malt. I can then compare the efficiency I got with the previous three batches. This batch I will be taking PH readings and will continue to treat the water the way I have been. My thought is I will remove an amount of grist, at this point I chose 1/3 of the millet and rice for the "decoction". From there I would add the 1/3 of gelatinized grain to the rest of the grain in my mash tun and step mash it from there and raise the temperature through the strike water. This way I am able to expose the beta and alpha enzymes to the gelatinzed grain in the rests. Any thoughts?

 

[jmitchell3]

Suppose that's the way to do it if you're not going to start high and reduce the temp while adding enzyme let us know how it goes!

 

[Stillraining]

Ill be bugging you soon....Your beer is my planed batch for July.. Fidel-farting around with a Black IPA this month.

Carry on.

 

[DRV]

Life got busy

Attached is a picture of the final product. I was pleasantly surprised about the success of this brew. There was hints of coffee, chocolate and even raisin.

I don't have the exact dates of when I put this brew in a bottle but there was something I noticed yesterday with the several remaining bottles. They have a after taste that is sort of metallic. Does anyone know how and when that develops. The beer for the first 2 months was tasty, this specific flavor developed overtime. Otherwise Brew #3 was bottled two nights ago and will post more about the results shortly.

 

[whip]

Thank you for this recipe and explicit instructions, including your crush sizes. I have a good friend that has a severe gluten allergy, but he LOVES a good beer. He always takes a small taste of my regular brews and really likes them. No I can surprise him with a couple cases just for him.

Thanks again and cheers!