First 5 gallon all-grain brew: some issues

[IslandLizard]

The 14lb was the original recipe, but I subbed 5lb of that for 3lb of DME, so I only had to handle 9lb.

That makes the whole process a lot more comfortable! Add the DME at flameout, it really doesn't need to be boiled, anyway.

 

[Ollie8000]

Yep, I got the DME-at-flameout tip from the LHBS when I got back into the hobby and have been doing that (mostly; I think I put some fraction of it in earlier with recipes where the mash had hardly anything in it, but I've moved away from that now).

I was there again today and picked up the ingredients for the next four brews. Two milds, one best, and an imperial stout. The first three are all-grain (one is 3 gallons, the others 5) and the stout is partial mash (5 gallons). All of the grain bills come in at under 10lb, so I'm confident that my system will handle it all OK.

It's good to go into a brew day with the biggest concerns being to fine-tune the process and get the numbers tight, rather than expecting to have to improvise. That said, don't be surprised by panicked posts here as things go wrong!

 

[IslandLizard]

Yep, I got the DME-at-flameout tip from the LHBS

Sounds like your brew store knows what they're doing.

the stout is partial mash

Just make sure there is a diastatic (base) malt included in the partial mash, and a sufficient amount of it.

Countless recipes (many from big online vendors) include Flaked Barley, Flaked Wheat, or Victory Malt, etc. to be steeped with the crystal and roasts, without a base malt being present at all.

 

[Ollie8000]

Yep, the partial mash is a re-do of one of the first ones I did on returning to the hobby. The original had 1lb 2-row (along with various other bits and bobs) and 9lb DME. I've kept the recipe the same, except that it's now 6lb 2-row and 6lb DME. So, even if the first one didn't have enough (and it came out well regardless), no worries this time.

But today is the 3-gallon mild. Mashing now.

 

[lowtones84]

Up that mild to 5 next time, I'm sure you can fit enough malt to mash in one pot for that one! Sounds like you're on the right track to successful stovetop brewing. What you're doing is basically how I brewed for several years.

 

[Ollie8000]

Yep, it's not a brew-day limitation, it's a carboy one. I have two primary buckets then an array of 3- and 5-gallon carboys I use for secondaries. Given what's in the pipeline I had to make one of those four brews a 3-gallon batch. The plan is that this 3-gallon one also provides a good lot of yeast for the big stout.

I'd prefer to do all 5-gallon batches, but once I reframe it as a choice between a 3-gallon one and a 0-gallon one, it doesn't feel so bad.

 

[IslandLizard]

For many "experimental brews" 2.5 gallon is plenty. But when they're good you wish you had 5.

Up that mild to 5 next time, I'm sure you can fit enough malt to mash in one pot for that one! Sounds like you're on the right track to successful stovetop brewing. What you're doing is basically how I brewed for several years.

Exactly! Low gravity brews require less grain, and are always good to have around. I dig that 3% Oat Mild, time to rebrew it.

@Ollie8000 You can always brew a half batch twice to get 5 gallons, or brew 2 different batches back to back, one prep time, one cleanup time.

Yep, it's not a brew-day limitation, it's a carboy one.

Of course, there's that!
I use 6.5 gallon brew buckets. 2 fit side by side in my ferm fridge, or in my "swamp" cooler in the lower level.

 

[Ollie8000]

Successful brew day. All well under control the whole time. 6hrs total time, but I wasn't rattling through things as quickly as I could.

I overshot the OG (1.055 vs. 1.043) which is partly because I very slightly undershot the final volume but mostly, I presume, because my efficiency turned out better than the BeerSmith defaults. Or is there likely to be some other reason?

To make the predicted OG come out in BeerSmith, after dropping the volume to 2.9galllons, I have to put 92% BH efficiency in to make the numbers match. Is that really plausible?

 

[lowtones84]

92% is possible but not likely. I think it has more to do with your volume, but BIAB brewers who have a good system dialed in tend to get high efficiency. Don't confuse that with better beer, however. Take measurements when you are spot on, or very close, to expected final volume.

 

[Ollie8000]

Another batch today that went pretty smoothly. 9lb of grain, 5 gallon boil (across the two big pots and a third saucepan contributing another useful half-gallon).

I stuck with mashing in two separate pots and bags. I think that 5lb in a bag is convenient to handle in a way that 10ish would not be. As I brew more maybe that will change, but I was happy with how it all went today.

OG was 1.052, which seems plausible for what I was brewing (a best bitter). I haven't entered it all into BeerSmith yet to see what I "should" be getting.

I am very pleased with how this is all coming together.

 

[Ollie8000]

Another smooth brew day. Just under 5hrs from start to finish (except that I still need to mop).

I think I've hit on the combination that will work best for me: two pots for the mash, a total end-of-boil volume of around 4 gallons, and some DME and cold water to top it up. I now know that I can push up to the full 5 gallons if there is a particular reason to, but I don't think I'll do that routinely.

The one issue is OG. I massively overshot again. 1.092 vs an expected one of 1.079. Beersmith says that this corresponds to an efficiency of 97.9%. Assuming that this is incorrect, any ideas what could be going on? My hydrometer measures plain water at 1.000 and my thermometer measures boiling water at 212F; should I do more testing or is that sufficient to be confident in them? Is there any chance I've set Beersmith to work in UK gallons while I'm doing it in US ones, or other similarly stupid mistakes?

 

[lowtones84]

When are you taking your gravity reading? Before or after adding DME/water to top up? BIAB brewers can get some very high efficiency, but I don't think I've ever heard that high.

 

[Ollie8000]

I measured after adding the DME and water, but before pitching the yeast.

 

[RM-MN]

For most extract brewers the routine is to add 2 gallons of water and the extract, then when the boil is over they top off with water to get to the proper volume. There is no reason you cannot do the same with all grain. It isn't often mentioned because with the conventional mash tun the mash efficiency isn't particularly high making this less desireable. However, with BIAB the mash efficiency can be very high (maybe not the 97% that Beersmith shows you having, a slight mis-measurent of volumes can throw that off when approaching the high limits) so you can make your wort and then dilute it to the expected amount of wort/expected OG. I've learned to reduce the grains because my efficiency is in the low 90's. You have proven that you do not need to add extract to get your expected OG.

 

[bracconiere]

Wasn't malting my own barley in the oven though, that's just crazy braconniere!

actually, i use the king size bathtub for malting....

Is there any chance I've set Beersmith to work in UK gallons while I'm doing it in US ones, or other similarly stupid mistakes?

Not sure if it matters, but there's a checkbox for "Add after Boil" for things like DME, sucrose.....
.

 

[Ollie8000]

I didn't see that checkbox, but I worked out how to have it added at the last minute of the boil. It changed the IBUs but not the efficiency.

That's good to hear RM-NM. I entered the best bitter that I made last time and that overshot too, but less so. Efficiency of 83%. So it seems possible that my efficiency is around 85-90% and that I'm messing little stuff up in measurement or elsewhere. Given that, I think that next time I'm aiming for a 5-gallon all-grain I'll do as you suggest and top off with water, having got as much volume as I can without much messing about (probably around 4 gallons or so).

I'm enjoying having a good burst of brewing, but it makes the correcting due to direct feedback harder. The bottled batch that'll be ready to test for the first time tomorrow was 7 brews ago! And those in their prime are further back still. Ah well, there are worse problems to have.

 

[Ollie8000]

Closing in on a year later...

Sorry for the bump, but I wanted to drop in and say thank you again to everyone who helped me here. This thread made a massive difference in my return to brewing and without it I wouldn't be brewing nearly as much or as well as otherwise.

I went a long time without much time here on the forum because I had a good set-up, which is pretty much how it ended in the thread. A three and a four gallon pot, BIAB in both simultaneously, some dunk-sparging to get the volume up and I can do five gallon all-grain batches quite comfortably now, especially of the lowish ABV british ales I've ended up brewing most. I also do three gallon all-grain for some stronger beers, and occasional partial mashes as well.

In the current lockdown I'm brewing at least once, and usually twice, a week.

Perhaps oddly, it's @bracconiere's tip about cleaning products that was the single most useful one. Not what I came for, but I'm not sure I'd still be brewing without that solution! But thanks to everyone!

 

[lowtones84]

Pretty much my exact setup. Glad it's working out for you!

 

[bracconiere]

Perhaps oddly, it's @bracconiere's tip about cleaning products that was the single most useful one.

a year later! lol, and you know what's playing right now, purely by chance!!



(and no i'm not kidding.....)