filter WITH a bag

[Owly055]

Tonight I did my first BWIB brew........... I mashed in a stock pot, then poured the mash into a bag............... Irrational? Well actually not in this case. I do stove top mashes, stirring and heating steadily, and the bag is an encumbrance and an annoyance. It interferes with stirring and keeping the heat uniform.

This is less convenient... it takes a second stock pot....... which I have anyway. It also of course takes a colander.... which I use anyway. And of course it takes a bit more time. This was a small mash.... a 1.5 gallon brew. In this case the bag as a filter worked very well. My normal brew size is 2.5 gallons. It will be at least a week before I'll have a chance to test it on a larger brew.


H.W.

 

[NeoBrew]

Sounds like an interesting technique. I wonder if hot side aeration would be a concern?

https://byo.com/hops/item/861-hot-side-aeration--storing-hops-mr-wizard

 

[Owly055]

Sounds like an interesting technique. I wonder if hot side aeration would be a concern?

https://byo.com/hops/item/861-hot-side-aeration--storing-hops-mr-wizard

Interesting..... It would suggest that one should be careful about sparging, and about how a RIMS system operates. The Braumeister would then be about the worst possible brewing system imaginable with the wort welling up through the grain tube, and spilling down the outside. I would suspect that some of the rims systems and sparge arms produce far more hot side aeration. I would say that the way I did this doesn't create significantly more hot side aeration than simply lifting and draining the bag does. The bag was resting in a colander and I ladled the mash into it from the mash kettle using a sauce pan. I would not say that there was significant splashing. Definitely nothing like a typical sparge arm.... It's an article that should be of interest to a lot of people.

H.W.

 

[bionut]

Hot side aeration doesn't occur this easily. I think you will be just fine. There are some intersting threads about hot side aeration, i am not sure if on HBT or the biab forum.
In home brewing you will have a very hard time trying to make hot side aeration.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Sounds like an interesting technique. I wonder if hot side aeration would be a concern?

https://byo.com/hops/item/861-hot-side-aeration--storing-hops-mr-wizard

HSA is somewhat of a mythical boogey man for home brewers. Not saying it's completely impossible, but it's incredibly unlikely.

Here's a pretty cool post on it:

http://brulosophy.com/2014/11/18/is-hot-side-aeration-fact-or-fiction-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Owly055]

HSA is somewhat of a mythical boogey man for home brewers. Not saying it's completely impossible, but it's incredibly unlikely.

Here's a pretty cool post on it:

http://brulosophy.com/2014/11/18/is-hot-side-aeration-fact-or-fiction-exbeeriment-results/

I think the thing that was not taken into account was time.... One of the reasons HSA is not a problem for us is the length of time we tend to keep our beers......... I don't have a position on this.... I've read of it before, but not factored it into my methods..........

I will repeat my suggestion that using a sparging arm as opposed to batch sparging would probably be the place where the greatest HSA would occur..... and of course as I mentioned before Braumeister brews would be much more subject to HSA than others.

H.W.

 

[TheZymurgist]

I think the thing that was not taken into account was time.... One of the reasons HSA is not a problem for us is the length of time we tend to keep our beers......... I don't have a position on this.... I've read of it before, but not factored it into my methods..........

I will repeat my suggestion that using a sparging arm as opposed to batch sparging would probably be the place where the greatest HSA would occur..... and of course as I mentioned before Braumeister brews would be much more subject to HSA than others.

H.W.

I had the same issue with his comparison. But, I've seen a ton of systems that cause some sort of aeration during different points while the wort is hot and people continue to use them without fear of it having an effect on their beers. I really don't think it's much of an issue for home brewers.

 

[doug293cz]

I had the same issue with his comparison. But, I've seen a ton of systems that cause some sort of aeration during different points while the wort is hot and people continue to use them without fear of it having an effect on their beers. I really don't think it's much of an issue for home brewers.

I did find an experiment that was conducted in 2006 and reported on the Basic Brewing web site. They did a very well controlled experiment (way better than most homebrew experiments) to attempt to determine if HSA had detrimental effects on homebrew. They did three tastings starting at about two weeks after bottling, and the final tasting after 6-7 months. The experiment and tasting results are described in the following three podcasts:

1. First
2. Second
3. Third

My takeaway from the experiment is that while there were differences in flavor that might have been related to the HSA, those differences diminished with time. Any effect was greater on new/green beer than beer with more time to bottle condition. The reduction of differences is consistent with Dr. Bamforth's assertion (in both of the 2009 and 2014 interviews linked elsewhere in this site) that the yeast will clean up a lot of whatever HSA might have done to the wort. And though there were taste differences, the tasters didn't believe the differences where a significant detriment. And, in order to have these taste differences, they had to resort to aeration methods far beyond what would normally occur in typical homebrew processes. I believe the experiment supports the assertion that HSA does not have significant detrimental effects in a typical homebrew environment. I am not saying that wort does not oxidize on the hot side, only that it doesn't cause significant problems for homebrewers.

Brew on

 

[TheZymurgist]

I did find an experiment that was conducted in 2006 and reported on the Basic Brewing web site. They did a very well controlled experiment (way better than most homebrew experiments) to attempt to determine if HSA had detrimental effects on homebrew. They did three tastings starting at about two weeks after bottling, and the final tasting after 6-7 months. The experiment and tasting results are described in the following three podcasts:

1. First
2. Second
3. Third

My takeaway from the experiment is that while there were differences in flavor that might have been related to the HSA, those differences diminished with time. Any effect was greater on new/green beer than beer with more time to bottle condition. The reduction of differences is consistent with Dr. Bamforth's assertion (in both of the 2009 and 2014 interviews linked elsewhere in this site) that the yeast will clean up a lot of whatever HSA might have done to the wort. And though there were taste differences, the tasters didn't believe the differences where a significant detriment. And, in order to have these taste differences, they had to resort to aeration methods far beyond what would normally occur in typical homebrew processes. I believe the experiment supports the assertion that HSA does not have significant detrimental effects in a typical homebrew environment. I am not saying that wort does not oxidize on the hot side, only that it doesn't cause significant problems for homebrewers.

Brew on

That's very interesting, thanks for sharing! That completely contradicts what I previously believed, that time was the key factor with HSA. The more you know...

 

[imasickboy]

As far as I can recall, negative aspects hot side aeration can only occur during an acid rest. (95-113 degrees)

I may be incorrect, but I'm pretty sure that's what I read. (And since I read it on the internet, it must be true.)

So, if you're not step mashing, you'll have nothing to worry about. If you have a direct fired mash, you'll still likely cruise through that temperature range relatively quickly, so you should have no problems. Infusion mashes will bypass that range altogether.

 

[doug293cz]

As far as I can recall, negative aspects hot side aeration can only occur during an acid rest. (95-113 degrees)

I may be incorrect, but I'm pretty sure that's what I read. (And since I read it on the internet, it must be true.)

So, if you're not step mashing, you'll have nothing to worry about. If you have a direct fired mash, you'll still likely cruise through that temperature range relatively quickly, so you should have no problems. Infusion mashes will bypass that range altogether.

Any idea where you saw that? I'd be interested in looking into it more.

Brew on

 

[Owly055]

I will be doing my 6th brew of 2015 tomorrow am. It will be a 2.5 gallon brew.... my normal brew size. I was so pleased with the results of the brew the other day using the bag only as a filter that I will be repeating it. It may take a bit more time......but very little. For me the technique works because of my "inline mash" where I dough in with hot tap water, rapidly heat to 145, then slow heat at about 2 deg per minute to 155.... spending 20 minutes in the conversion range. because of the regular stirring the bag is inconvenient. I've had excellent luck as far as consistent results, good attenuation, and repeatablility, and good efficiency. To paraphrase an old saying "the proof is in the beer".... I've been happy with the product as compared to the conventional hour mash, and the time savings quite significant.
The point of describing my oft described mashing system is to point out that using the bag as a filter makes sense....... for me, but perhaps not for other BIAB brewers. I suspect that it will become my standard methodology.

H.W.

 

[imasickboy]

Any idea where you saw that? I'd be interested in looking into it more.

Brew on

I'm reasonably confident I saw it here on HBT, but it was some years ago, and there are so many mentions of it here, that the digging through all that old info is seriously overwhelming. I'll keep looking for it, though.