few questions on my Belgian Dubbel

[thyirishmen]

per beertoolspro my targeted OG was 1.077 and my FG 1.017 ( it should be lower but it does not calculate the fermentability of the cane sugar). my actual was 1.080 as i was a little more efficient than expected. I started fermentation at 64 and every day i raised the temps +1 degrees. I did this for 7 days up until 70. I left it at 70 for one extra day, making the total time 8 days. I checked the gravity and it was 1.010. I figured that it was complete since I was past the 1.018 mark. I cold crashed it ( I like this so i get less junk in the keg) and will begin carbonation. I will leave it at 45ish for about a month before drinking it. Does this sound ok? I used the wyeast trappist yeast. I tried the beer before I put it into the keg and it was ok, but lacked the dept ( might be the flatness causing this) but it did have alot of fruitiness. I did not taste any buttered popcorn.

 

[Jayhem]

Looks like you actually made a Belgian Tripel http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style18.php#1c

You really should let it ride at room temp for a few more weeks before cold conditioning so that the yeast can clean up the beer and get rid of any off flavors before you put them permanently dormant.

 

[highgravitybacon]

You may be surprised at how well the yeast will attenuate. It might not be done. I just made a dubbel with Wyeast 1214 and it had insane attenuation. I was hoping for something in the 1.008-1.012 range, but the yeast just wouldn't quit. It ended up at 1.004. This was the first attempt at this yeast and beer, and unfortunately it's a bit on the dry and thin side. It continued to ferment for at least another 2 weeks despite sitting at about 52-54F for that time.

If I was to do it again, which I will some day, I would mash considerably higher, perhaps 154F or so, and decrease the amount of simple sugars to about 8% by weight instead of the 12% I used.

 

[thyirishmen]

I used wyeast 3787..The recipe was from the brewing classic styles book... the fermentation method is from that recipe. its still in the carboy but i crashed it... can I raise it back up for a few days still? its at like 40 now in the freezer hooked up to the johnson controller. How would I know when its done than if im already past the FG.

 

[highgravitybacon]

The recipe was from the brewing classic styles book... the fermentation method is from that recipe. its still in the carboy but i crashed it... can I raise it back up for a few days still? its at like 40 now in the freezer hooked up to the johnson controller. How would I know when its done than if im already past the FG.

That was what my recipe was based on as well. You really won't know if its done until the yeast decides its done. I have had unexpected surprises at bottling time (gushers, no exploders) because something about racking the beer reinvigorates fermentation that last little bit.

Checking the gravity is really the only way to tell. If you know what it is now, and in a week it still continues to drop, then its not done. I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you used Wyeast 1214, its so slow to flocculate it will continue to work even in the cold.

Something about that recipe didn't seem right when I read it the first time. It seemed like an abnormally high FG for that mash temp and the amount of simple sugars used. I should have listened to my instincts instead of blindly following a recipe. Instead, I was overly concerned about it turning into a weird Belgian Bock type malt bomb, when in fact that would have been a preferred outcome to the beer I have now.

But there's always next time. And hey, maybe in 4 months or so, it will be awesome. Right now it's "meh."

---

Edit -- I just noticed you used 3787, not 1214. Misread that. Can't be much help since I've never used that yeast.

 

[thyirishmen]

ok thanks, on a side note if i already cold crashed it, can i bring it back up and let it try to continue some more?

 

[Jayhem]

I used 3787 Wyeast on my Dubbel I did a few months ago.

that yeast is nuts! I fermented at 64F for 5 days and then slowly raised the temp to 70F. I pitched a huge 2-step starter of 1.5L into the wort at 64F and it took off in about 16 hours. It was still bubbling after 14 days in the fermenter which is the longest I've ever had a fermentation go! My guess is yours will still finish out a bit more. Mine was OG 1.068 FG 1.009

You should be able to warm it back up, swirl the fermenter around to re-suspend the yeast and they should continue to ferment just at a reduced rate since you had cold crashed.

 

[thyirishmen]

ok, should i go back to 70 degrees? yeah mine went from .80 to .10 in 7 days... it dumped out the hose like half a gallon!

 

[rayfound]

Looks like you actually made a Belgian Tripel http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style18.php#1c

You really should let it ride at room temp for a few more weeks before cold conditioning so that the yeast can clean up the beer and get rid of any off flavors before you put them permanently dormant.

Tripel vs. Dubbel is mainly a matter of color/flavor, not gravity.

I've brewed Jamil's Dubbel also (from the podcast, so slightly different than the book I believe), and mine finished at 1012.

 

[TrickyDick]

I'm not accustomed to making a lot of Belgian brews. I love them, but find them to be intimidating.
I bought and read the book "brew like a monk" which is good, but as they say, nothing beats experience.
I bought a bunch of belgian beers to drink for inspiration and see if I could tell what was in them.
Honestly, I only know what I liked best, but not too good at picking out what I thought was in each brew.

Made a total of 4 belgian brews. First was my best ever, a Belgian Dark Strong Ale. I fermented in guest bath shower stall with space heater to bump heat slowly up to 80 after a few days. Bottle conditioned for a year before opening. It was awesome. The next 2 brews sorta sucked- another Dark strong extract brew with old ingredients didn't help. And then a Golden Strong, but didn't put as much effort into the starter. It sucked and stalled high. Last was the one I made Sunday, and I planned this one better. Made a nice 2 stage starter with mix of WLP500 and WLP550. OG 1.068 not counting the Candi Sugar (for another .008 points) I'll add to primary in a day or two.

Since I am doing this one in a temp controlled freezer, I decided to chill to 65 degrees F and then let "free rise" to 80. So tonight after getting home from work it was 79. Seems pretty fast for a free rise. I set the T-stat at 70 to cool it off a bit. The probe is taped to the side of the plastic fermenting vessel. I was trying to accomplish what your Dubbel is doing on the fermentation, but I think I let it rise too fast and don't want to ruin it with too fast and furious fermentation.

Anyway, the first belgian I made (using WLP500) I let return to room temp for two weeks before cold crashing and then racking and cold conditioning for 2 months, then bottled and let rest for a year (maybe was 10 months cant recall as it was 2008). I would recommend you also let rest at room temp before you cold crash and condition. I didn't add yeast when I bottled, and wished I had done that. The carbonation level was somewhat less than I wanted - corks didn't come out easily - but tasted good in the glass.

TD

 

[meadowstream]

My experience with WLP500 and WLP530 are that both are vigorous fermenters, but the former is strong and steady for about 3 days and fully attenuated in about 7, while the latter's peak activity is much more violent for a shorter time but then has a long fermentation tail (I have a two week old fermentation in the basement now that is still slowly but steadily bubbling.)

I have used 2 techniques to brew a Dubbel: use a malt bill with lots of specialty malts, or use a simple combo of pale and Pilsen malts combined with dark Belgian candi syrup. Both work well and both are good. I was surprised that the latter yielded such an outstanding product, but it may be true that simpler is better.

I think controlling fermentation temperatures to he lower end of the range results in an earthier or cleaner tasting beer - but staying away from fruitier esters and phenols is my own preference.

I let my beer sit on the yeast cake for 4 weeks. I do this because the literature and experience say that yeast will slowly "clean up" off favors through re-absorption and because experts say important organic and inorganic reactions continue to occur for many days after full attenuation is reached (to the benefit of the beer.). But if you did cold crash your beer recently and prematurely then you should be able to let it come back to 70 deg (or whatever temperature you desire) and see your beer finish as hoped for.

 

[TrickyDick]

I've used 500 once before. I forget my exact ferm temp management, but let it go low then bumped to 80.
This time, I chilled to 65, pitched, and set t-stat to turn on freezer at 80, with probe taped to side of fermenter (plastic brewcube).
By day two it had leaped to 79! I thought that was too fast of a "free-rise" like I hear they do at Chimay. I bumped it down to 70 after day one, then up to 75, then up to 80 on successive days, but never got past 72 that I can tell. I am using a "brewcube" holds 13 some odd gallons, for this 11 gallon batch. OG was 1.077 including the 2 lbs Candi syrup I added on day two of fermentation. I think the lid on the brewcube wasn't fully sealed or was leaking around the stopper (universal stoppers tend to slip). Day 3 I say Zero airlock (or in this case, blow off tube) activity. Day 4 I took lid off and say huge head of krausen. I wondered if the syrup had dissolved or not so I dipped a sanitized spoon it, and there was no piled up wad of syrup on the bottom. I took a hydrometer reading and said 1.017, which is my calculated FG per Beersmith! Holy WOW! 3-4 days including 2 lbs sugar added on day 2! I was able to get the lid and and airlock back on and had good seal this time. Today is day 7.

I am not sure where to go from here with it. I think I need to let it sit for a while before racking and cold conditioning, but should I just let it sit at whatever temp it likes? It is in a temp controlled freezer set to 80 right now, but has been at 72 for several days. Ambient is a few degrees cooler, depending on time of day usually 68-72 range. I think I'll set the temp at 72 go with that, unless anyone has other recommendations.

Can't really say cooling to 69-70 is cold crashing. I noticed on day two however, that the freezer overshot desired temp, and was reading 67. the sensor is taped to the side of the plastic brewcube. I DO have a SS thermowell so I can place temp probe into that , and it sits in the beer itself, though have never used it before. Maybe I should start using that. I got from NB a few years back along with a plastic heating thing that you can tape to fermenter, though I not sure if would melt plastic...

TD

 

[meadowstream]

Can't really say cooling to 69-70 is cold crashing. I noticed on day two however, that the freezer overshot desired temp, and was reading 67. the sensor is taped to the side of the plastic brewcube...

TD

Cold crashing is bringing your beer to a temperature well below where yeast are active - in this case to 55 deg or lower (I would typically cold crash to 45 degrees F.)

 

[TrickyDick]

Hey, speaking of Belgian dubbel. I brewed mine a couple weeks ago. It's ready to be racked. Out of primary.. I'm at work and don't recall exact brew day. I believe it's been in primary for three weeks give or take a day or two. It was at expected terminal gravity when I last checked it.

So my problem is somewhat logistical. I want to brew this Sunday with a friend. I've gone to brewing 10-11 gal batches. The dubbel is currently in a "brewcube" from AHS. Not sure I like the design BTW, hard to move and lift with integrated handles, and hard to get tight tight seal on lid with a universal stopper. But I digress...
I want to cold condition it a while.

How long should I cold condition it? I was going to rack to my empty conical, and let it sit for a week, at 34 degrees.
Should it matter if I quickly or slowly ramp the temp down? Reason I pick one week for conditioning is that I am out of temp controlled fridge space to cold condition like this, and even serving fridge is packed full. And I have a brew planned for next weekend and its a lager so either way the dubbel is getting booted from the conical next weekend. Can't wait for the hydrometer taste!

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

So I brewed mine on 3/17. Bottled on 4/20.
I was contacted by a local freebie magazine company that distributes magazines at local businesses for free (advertisers pay the bills). They are doing an issue about men and men's hobbies. At any rate, they are running a piece about homebrewing, and I was contacted, and interviewed. They wanted to do a photo shoot (yep, gonna look like a dork). They wanted some props and of course, beer. The ONLY beer I had in bottles was this Dubbel.

I brought a cellar temp bottle (bottled for one month) and a mason jar of malt and of hops. I got talked into opening the bottle. For room temp beer was really darn good. I am going to have to chill down a bottle for the weekend. Worst part was that the photographer didn't drink, and the other homebrewer had to leave for a meeting, leaving a half bottle (750ml) that I didn't want to consume and drive home, so it got dumped...

TD