Fermzilla: When to apply pressure

[cochised]

Planning to use new acquired Fermzilla for first time next week for a partial APA
Not used it before or done pressure fermentation and have tried to find out as much as possible online.
Not trying to achieve anything in particular with regards to speeding up process or the like, more just get to grips with the process of using the kit, same reason I'm doing a partial to keep things simple.

So question is when should I apply pressure and how much? Temperature should be about 20c/68f
I realise there are different answers but having a rough guide of when to start would be great.

Cheers

 

[Vale71]

You should spund when you are about 4 points from your estimated FG.

 

[cochised]

Sorry if I'm missing something, I usually do, but am I letting the pressure build up naturally or applying it using Co2?
Have the pressure kit and a spunding valve

 

[ChiknNutz]

The point of spunding is to naturally carbonate under pressure via the CO2 produced during fermentation.

 

[cochised]

Cool

Have seen videos of people applying various levels of Co2 to speed up fermentation and avoid esters etc, still trying to get head around it

 

[Vale71]

Cool

Have seen videos of people applying various levels of Co2 to speed up fermentation and avoid esters etc, still trying to get head around it

Pressure actually makes fermentation slower. The speeding up comes from fermenting a lager at much higher temps than usual. Since you mentioned you're making an ale that does not apply in this case. With ale yeast significantly raising the temperature above the usual recommened range would not be beneficial to your beer, even if you were to do that under pressure.

 

[cochised]

Cool, makes sense.
So if doing an ale what should I be doing? Use an airlock setup like normal at the start? And then switching to spunding valve near the end?

 

[Vale71]

Cool, makes sense.
So if doing an ale what should I be doing? Use an airlock setup like normal at the start? And then switching to spunding valve near the end?

Correctamundo...

 

[cochised]

Excellent, cheers.
Every day is a school day

 

[Stephane Jeffrey]

I've been setting the spunding valve to 12psi right from the start and leaving things at room temp for all my ales lately.
I guess it's true that it won't speed up fermentation for an ale but it will help make sure no oxygen gets in and it seems to be less affected by temperature.

 

[VikeMan]

Cool, makes sense.
So if doing an ale what should I be doing? Use an airlock setup like normal at the start? And then switching to spunding valve near the end?

You can also use a spunding valve instead of an airlock (without fermenting "under pressure") at the beginning. You simply set the spunding valve at a lower pressure, e.g. 2 PSI or so.

 

[ChiknNutz]

That's what I've started doing. The one I have also has an airlock which is nice so you can visually witness evidence of fermentation.

 

[cochised]

Seeing as it first time using it I might go with airlock for now and get to grips with it

Thanks

 

[cochised]

I've been setting the spunding valve to 12psi right from the start and leaving things at room temp for all my ales lately.
I guess it's true that it won't speed up fermentation for an ale but it will help make sure no oxygen gets in and it seems to be less affected by temperature.

Missed this reply, may go for that next time

Brewed today, partial APA and then into Fermzilla. Went with airlock for now and will use spunding valve when nearing target gravity.
Have the pressure kit so should be handy for taking gravity samples etc

 

[Dgallo]

Missed this reply, may go for that next time

Brewed today, partial APA and then into Fermzilla. Went with airlock for now and will use spunding valve when nearing target gravity.
Have the pressure kit so should be handy for taking gravity samples etc

Are you familiar transferring carbonated beer to you’re serving keg? If not you’ll want to read up on it, I personally think it’s a pain. I only use the pressure kit to put a light head pressure on when dryhopping and to close transfer.

 

[cochised]

Just what I've seen on YT etc.
Also, when you say closed transfer is that not same thing? As in oxygen free transfer using liquid to liquid line?

 

[Dgallo]

Just what I've seen on YT etc.
Also, when you say closed transfer is that not same thing? As in oxygen free transfer using liquid to liquid line?

Yes same idea. In this thread you were talking about spunding in the FV which would carb the beer. when I’m dryhoping I just keep enough head pressure to keep aroma in, like 1-2 psi. The beer never carbonates enough to cause issues when transferring.

 

[cochised]

I'm going to try dry hopping using the collection vessel, flush it with Co2 and open butterfly valve to mix into the wort. Others seem to have had success with that method

Must admit it's a slightly steeper learning curve than I was expecting, but am getting into it now and think it's a very good system

 

[Stephane Jeffrey]

Are you familiar transferring carbonated beer to you’re serving keg? If not you’ll want to read up on it, I personally think it’s a pain. I only use the pressure kit to put a light head pressure on when dryhopping and to close transfer.

Can you share what makes it a pain? I've been doing pressure fermentation for a while now. Most of them from fermenting in keg and now in fermzilla. I can't say that they've given much grief.

Also, I was just thinking about what you said about keeping 1-2 psi to keep aromas in. Would that just work until you build enough pressure and then part of the relief pressure would have some of the aroma in it?

 

[Dgallo]

Can you share what makes it a pain? I've been doing pressure fermentation for a while now. Most of them from fermenting in keg and now in fermzilla. I can't say that they've given much grief.

Also, I was just thinking about what you said about keeping 1-2 psi to keep aromas in. Would that just work until you build enough pressure and then part of the relief pressure would have some of the aroma in it?

So let’s say you sat your beer at room temp under 10 psi while dryhopping. You’re carb level will be roughly 1.5-1.7. The transferring the beer will foam up as co2 leaves the beer. So to prevent this from happening you need to pressurize the serving keg and pull the prv/pressurize the keg constantly during the transfer. You tend to have to transfer much slower so it’s a just much more of a hassle than transferring non carbonated beer to your serving

Now keeping head pressure. The beer during fermentation will absorb some co2. So without heat pressure co2 will exit the beer. With head pressure you are forcing more aroma to stay in. When you pull the prv your only removing the aroma that is already in the headspace. It obviously doesn’t keep it all in but it keeps far more in than If you’re not doing it

 

[Stephane Jeffrey]

Fair enough for the aroma keeping.

As for transfer, just put your spunding valve on the receiving keg. To minimize chance of foaming I set my receiving keg to same pressure as fermzilla, put CO2 on fermzilla and spunding on receiving keg. It takes a bit of time but no oxidation and little to no fuss.

 

[Dgallo]

Fair enough for the aroma keeping.

As for transfer, just put your spunding valve on the receiving keg. To minimize chance of foaming I set my receiving keg to same pressure as fermzilla, put CO2 on fermzilla and spunding on receiving keg. It takes a bit of time but no oxidation and little to no fuss.

Since you typically will need to still need to put your beer on pressure even after transferring it carbonated for it to be at the correct level, for me it makes no since to to carbonate the beer before it is placed in the serving keg. Everyone has their own practices that work great for them, though so I get it.

Are you piggy backing your kegs to your fv to use the gas fron fermentation to purge them? Beside close transferring that’s my favoring thing about the kit.

 

[Stephane Jeffrey]

I haven't tried the piggy back thing but I have heard it being mentioned.
I guess the only real reason to set pressure higher during active fermentation is if you believe pressure will help the yeast (lager at room temp or something like that). I have a fridge that I used for fermenting before but I need to make some mods to it for the Fermzilla to fit, hence wanting the higher pressure on my fermentations...

 

[cochised]

As an aside, loving the ability to watch the yeast do it's thing

 

[cochised]

Attached spunding valve earlier so shall see how it goes, fermenting about a week.

Dry hopped using collection vessel at bottom but in my haste forgot to apply Co2 to purge it and opened butterfly valve to add hops