Fermented according to recipe but cant help but wonder

[MHBT]

My latest batch had a more intricate ferm schedule then i am used to doing, here is exactly what i did

pitched @ 60 temp but temp dropped to 58F target pitch temp was 64F
the next day it was at 64F and in full swing, i held the temp between 64-66F for 48 hours until krausen started to fall.
then started ramping the temps 2 degrees per day until i hit 80F..In the recipe it calls for ramping from 64-82F but i stopped at 80F..I never allow my beers to get this high and its having me wonder..Its kinda scary intentionally letting the beer get this warm..So i posted this just to share what im doing and also to get validated that the beer is gonna be fine lol..yeast i used is wy1388, BGSA style..just hoping i did not get fusels or any other off flavor during this ramp

 

[MHBT]

The lack of replies makes me think there is nothing to worry about

 

[Kent88]

What kind of beer are you trying to get out of this? Something Belgian (BGSA, Belgian Golden Strong Ale?). What was the starting gravity?

That seems like a really big shift in temperature.

I'm not a professional, but if you started off at 66F, and you raised it 2 degrees per day after the first 2 days until you hit 80F, then you kept it at "reasonable" ale temps for about a week, long enough that a good portion of fermentation should be done. Your yeast shouldn't have much left to do by the time you got above 74F, so they should have less chance to produce off-flavors.

You posted at a time of day where I usually don't notice a lot of forum activity. I don't actually know when this forum is most active, though.

 

[MHBT]

Yeah its a Jamil duvel clone recipe i started lower then 66F i pitched yeast at around 60F..he recommends pitching low at 64F and ramping to 82F over the coarse of a week..i waited to start ramping once the krausen started to fall. i took a flash light to the carboy to see if there is activity and low and behold there is still yeast slowly churning and its day 10..starting gravity was 1.078 i was targeting 1.072

 

[Juno_Malone]

I think it's pretty common to start Belgian yeasts in the low 60s and let them ramp up (in a controlled fashion) to the high 70s/low 80s. Your beer will be fine (if not delicious!).

 

[MHBT]

i sure hope so, its my mission to perfect this style and have cases stocked up

I think it's pretty common to start Belgian yeasts in the low 60s and let them ramp up (in a controlled fashion) to the high 70s/low 80s. Your beer will be fine (if not delicious!).

 

[Azura]

1388 is one of the most difficult yeasts to use. The schedule that you followed is capable of making a good beer. Pitch rate and O2 are variables that can change the optimal fermentation schedule.

Light spice (not obvious clove) and light pear (not nail polish remover) are the most desirable characteristics for 1388. It's really easy to make a 1388 beer that has a brutal solvent quality that punishes the drinker.

 

[MHBT]

1388 is one of the most difficult yeasts to use. The schedule that you followed is capable of making a good beer. Pitch rate and O2 are variables that can change the optimal fermentation schedule.

Light spice (not obvious clove) and light pear (not nail polish remover) are the most desirable characteristics for 1388. It's really easy to make a 1388 beer that has a brutal solvent quality that punishes the drinker.

I pitched a large starter and 1 min pure o2, unfortunately i probably overpitched

 

[Azura]

I pitched a large starter and 1 min pure o2, unfortunately i probably overpitched

If your beer is above 8%, it should have subtle spice and subtle fruit that leans towards pear. It should not be nail polish remover beer and should be pleasant to drink. 1388 beers are generally better with 2-3 months of age. It's a slow flocc-er, so don't be afraid to let it sit in the primary for at least 3 weeks

 

[MHBT]

If your beer is above 8%, it should have subtle spice and subtle fruit that leans towards pear. It should not be nail polish remover beer and should be pleasant to drink. 1388 beers are generally better with 2-3 months of age. It's a slow flocc-er, so don't be afraid to let it sit in the primary for at least 3 weeks

Yeah definitely gonna let this one sit around awhile, probably 4 weeks in primary,3-4 weeks bottle conditioning and long cold cellar at 42-45F for 6-8 weeks before i even think about opening one,,cheers

 

[Azura]

Sounds like it's going to be a good beer. Bottling is better than kegging for this style.

 

[MHBT]

Sounds like it's going to be a good beer. Bottling is better than kegging for this style.

I have my fingers crossed..i sniffed the airlock and im getting ripe pear

 

[MHBT]

one last question, do you think i should keep the temps at 80F until i cold crash in about 20 days?

 

[TheHopfather]

Once you are past the yeast growth phase there is no worry about leaving the beer warm. Warmer temps will actually help the yeast finish up and encourage complete attenuation. I would just leave it.

 

[Azura]

one last question, do you think i should keep the temps at 80F until i cold crash in about 20 days?

IMO, the main purpose of the late 80F is to get the last few gravity points that would take a lot longer or might not even happen if the temp never rose above 70F. The FG is your guide. I've never left it to finish at 80F for longer than 5 days. Removing the heat from an 80F fermenter at 60F ambient initiates flocculation. Hold at 60-65F for a week. The yeast is still working. Then cold crash for a week for bright beer without finings.

Sometimes, a big beer fermented with 1388 can be finicky and stall at 1.020ish. Transferring to a secondary with a little yeast cake can restart the stuck fermentation.

 

[DeadYetiBrew]

I can't speak for that strain in particular but I don't have great temp control for my Ales and they'll swing from 68*F to 80*F on their own in the first couple days of fermentation and I've honestly had no off flavors that aren't suppose to be there, no fusel or anything. Esters may be more pronounced slightly with some but nothing that is characteristic of whichever strain I'm using...

I remember using this to my advantage when I had someone request a banana beer, so i used a wheat yeast that gave off banana strongly in it's upper temps and just let it do it's thing and it turned out perfect with no off flavors...

 

[matzou]

Hey matty,

Don't wait 20days, it's going against the agressive ferm temp schedule.

Just did a similar recipe. 82/18% pilsner white sugar with 1388(dregs of maredsous 6 to be accurate)
Slightly underpitched (think so...) and did not Areate wort.
wort was at 19.5c/67f I maintained for 1 day then pushed it to 26c/80f over 7 days(1c per day after 24h)
Then cold crashed for 3 weeks at 0.5c/33f while carbing to 3.2vol(max my line could handle without foaming.)

Don't remember the og but the final beer 9.7% FG 1005
Bottled a couple after 1 month and sent to competition...
Well it went to final round and took best belgian ale which apparently won me the right to brew it at professional brewery!


So yeah you should be fine, what I followed was the supposed schedule from duvel according to blam.

Thought if I were you I would not let it warm. And put emphasis on the cold conditioning for the flavor to mellow.

Oh and definitely right to bottle conditioning, I had no other choice to turn it around in such little time but next time I will bottle in Belgian bottle close to 4vol.

What was the recipe? Og predicted FG?

Enjoy those wonderful esters (and dat spicy phenolic as well)

 

[Azura]

Duvel in it's current form is something like an imperial pilsner. It's disappointing to drink today. 10+ years ago, Duvel had a unique yeast character that can be made today using 1388 and a specific fermentation schedule.

Starting higher than 65F could be the kiss of death for 1388. Temperature control is very important for this yeast. I'm not saying the previous poster from Spain made a bad beer. I'm saying it's really easy to make a bad beer with 1388 without rigid temperature control or lucky temperature control.

 

[MHBT]

Hey matty,

Don't wait 20days, it's going against the agressive ferm temp schedule.

Just did a similar recipe. 82/18% pilsner white sugar with 1388(dregs of maredsous 6 to be accurate)
Slightly underpitched (think so...) and did not Areate wort.
wort was at 19.5c/67f I maintained for 1 day then pushed it to 26c/80f over 7 days(1c per day after 24h)
Then cold crashed for 3 weeks at 0.5c/33f while carbing to 3.2vol(max my line could handle without foaming.)

Don't remember the og but the final beer 9.7% FG 1005
Bottled a couple after 1 month and sent to competition...
Well it went to final round and took best belgian ale which apparently won me the right to brew it at professional brewery!


So yeah you should be fine, what I followed was the supposed schedule from duvel according to blam.

Thought if I were you I would not let it warm. And put emphasis on the cold conditioning for the flavor to mellow.

Oh and definitely right to bottle conditioning, I had no other choice to turn it around in such little time but next time I will bottle in Belgian bottle close to 4vol.

What was the recipe? Og predicted FG?

Enjoy those wonderful esters (and dat spicy phenolic as well)

I followed jamil's recipe- 11 lbs belgian pilsner, 3lbs of cane sugar(late addition) i cant remember off hand the exact amount of hops somewhere in the (2.5-2.75oz range) i shot for 32 IBU's (czech saaz and styrian goldings 90 mins), wy1388 yeast. My OG was 1.078 and my target FG is somewhere around 1.007 (if im lucky) to get me in the 9-9.5% range I mashed at 149F for 2 hours..i added pure o2 for 1 min before pitching a large starter (probably overpitched unfortunately) at a cool temp of 58-60F (i over chilled by accident) then fermented at 64-66F for the first 48 hours until the krausen started to fall then started ramping 2 degrees per day until i got to 80F which took about 9-10 days and its been at 80F since, its been in primary 13 days and i still see yeast slowly churning in the carboy, i do plan of cold crashing, bottling, warm conditioning(3 weeks) then cold cellering for 6-8 weeks minimum before sampling

 

[MHBT]

Duvel in it's current form is something like an imperial pilsner. It's disappointing to drink today. 10+ years ago, Duvel had a unique yeast character that can be made today using 1388 and a specific fermentation schedule.

Starting higher than 65F could be the kiss of death for 1388. Temperature control is very important for this yeast. I'm not saying the previous poster from Spain made a bad beer. I'm saying it's really easy to make a bad beer with 1388 without rigid temperature control or lucky temperature control.

i hear you , i have had a few failures with 1388 which i think was due to not having good temp control, this go around i had a much more controlled fermentation. And i also agree about the duvel of the past was better but its still world class

 

[Azura]

You're on the verge of nailing 1388, MattyHBT. I can feel it. I am happy for you. It's been a few years since I dabbled with the yeast Devil. It's on my radar again. Thanks.

 

[MHBT]

You're on the verge of nailing 1388, MattyHBT. I can feel it. I am happy for you. It's been a few years since I dabbled with the yeast Devil. It's on my radar again. Thanks.

Cheers bro, thanks for the encouragement, i'll tell you what if it turns out well i will PM you and send you a 750ml bottle, cheers

 

[Azura]

Cheers bro, thanks for the encouragement, i'll tell you what if it turns out well i will PM you and send you a 750ml bottle, cheers

Thanks, but you don't need to send me a bottle. I want to hear about what happens with this beer later ITT whenever it happens.

 

[matzou]

Starting higher than 65F could be the kiss of death for 1388. Temperature control is very important for this yeast. I'm not saying the previous poster from Spain made a bad beer. I'm saying it's really easy to make a bad beer with 1388 without rigid temperature control or lucky temperature control.

Yeah, my bad I should have put a red warning that since I'am from Spain everything is worth less. Now I'll just divide the BJCP score by two upon receival of the scoresheet and refuse the prizes/medals. Imbécile.


On the other Matty seems like you got everything dialed, enjoy your beer.

 

[MHBT]

Well, the beer did not turn out, the FG stopped at 1012, fusel alcohol bomb, its hot like liquor and that nasty alcohol bitterness , i wish i knew what went wrong, i tried to really do everything properly. My guess is my controller is not accurate or raised temps to fast or possibly from overpitching or it got oxidized cause i can get some big sherry wine notes. idk but i will not be packaging this, this is like my 10th failed attempt at a duvel clone lol, i gotta figure this out, its pretty sad i cannot brew my favorite style of beer

 

[Kent88]

Did you dump it already?

There is a thread around here somewhere, titled something like "Never dump your beer, patience is a virtue", with all kinds of success stories for people who bottled it, forgot about it, and rediscovered it months later and it was better.

Even if you can't spare the bottles to package all of it, make a 6-pack, label it clearly, and just tuck it away somewhere cool and dark and forget you even have it for a few months. Just as an experiment.

 

[beerlover77]

I make a Tripel once a year that is like 9.5%. It is not good for the first few months (very boozy) but it keeps getting better... At 9 months to a year it is magical.
I know you are using a different yeast and not making a Tripel but it would be wise to bottle this and put it away for awhile, maybe trying at 3, 6, 9 months.

Your fermentation schedule sounds like it shouldn't really cause fusel alcohols but a strong beer still will taste boozy and need time to mellow out.

 

[MHBT]

Did you dump it already?

There is a thread around here somewhere, titled something like "Never dump your beer, patience is a virtue", with all kinds of success stories for people who bottled it, forgot about it, and rediscovered it months later and it was better.

Even if you can't spare the bottles to package all of it, make a 6-pack, label it clearly, and just tuck it away somewhere cool and dark and forget you even have it for a few months. Just as an experiment.

no i did not dump, i decided to let it sit for awhile in the fermenter then im gonna keg condition it instead of bottle it cause if it stays bad i just had to clean and sanitize one vessel instead of 24-25 bottles

 

[MHBT]

I make a Tripel once a year that is like 9.5%. It is not good for the first few months (very boozy) but it keeps getting better... At 9 months to a year it is magical.
I know you are using a different yeast and not making a Tripel but it would be wise to bottle this and put it away for awhile, maybe trying at 3, 6, 9 months.

Your fermentation schedule sounds like it shouldn't really cause fusel alcohols but a strong beer still will taste boozy and need time to mellow out.

yeah im gonna hold on to it cause for a while cause dumping it seems like more work then letting it just sit around, it might mellow out and i will have learned a valuable lesson if it does, cheers

 

[beerlover77]

no i did not dump, i decided to let it sit for awhile in the fermenter then im gonna keg condition it instead of bottle it cause if it stays bad i just had to clean and sanitize one vessel instead of 24-25 bottles

If I can please make a humble suggestion. Why not bottle a few big ones to age and keg the rest? Even if it is like (6) 750ml's?

Hopefully your keg is an extra and you can put in a corner for awhile. I also think aging on some yeast helps mellow it. Maybe you can prime the keg with a little dextrose?

Sorry probably wayyy to many suggestions, I will go sit in the corner now!

 

[MHBT]

If I can please make a humble suggestion. Why not bottle a few big ones to age and keg the rest? Even if it is like (6) 750ml's?

Hopefully your keg is an extra and you can put in a corner for awhile. I also think aging on some yeast helps mellow it. Maybe you can prime the keg with a little dextrose?

Sorry probably wayyy to many suggestions, I will go sit in the corner now!

Thats exactly what i was planning, im gonna dose the keg with some priming sugar and some cbc1 yeast to get it to referment and proceed exactly the way i would have if i bottled, 3-4 week keg condition, 6-8 week cold cellar then throw it in the kegerator, i was thinking about bottling maybe 6 but i dont know how to properly prime the individual bottles, i dont have carb drops and i dont want to buy any just for 6 bottles

 

[beerlover77]

Thats exactly what i was planning, im gonna dose the keg with some priming sugar and some cbc1 yeast to get it to referment and proceed exactly the way i would have if i bottled, 3-4 week keg condition, 6-8 week cold cellar then throw it in the kegerator, i was thinking about bottling maybe 6 but i dont know how to properly prime the individual bottles, i dont have carb drops and i dont want to buy any just for 6 bottles

Someone on here was saying one sugar cube per standard bottle works great

 

[Kent88]

I always use carbonation drops/tabs. Its odd because I'm one of the most paranoid people you'll ever meet regarding contamination/sanitation, but all I do is bottle, wash my hands, immerse my fingers in sanitizer for a moment, and pick up the tabs with the tips of my fingers.

I've heard of people boiling some wort (made from DME), letting it cool a bit, putting it into a bottling bucket, siphoning the finished beer on top of it, and bottle from there. I see that as an opportunity to introduce a bunch of oxygen. I don't know yet which is worse, germs on my fingers or oxygen from the bucket.

 

[MHBT]

I always use carbonation drops/tabs. Its odd because I'm one of the most paranoid people you'll ever meet regarding contamination/sanitation, but all I do is bottle, wash my hands, immerse my fingers in sanitizer for a moment, and pick up the tabs with the tips of my fingers.

I've heard of people boiling some wort (made from DME), letting it cool a bit, putting it into a bottling bucket, siphoning the finished beer on top of it, and bottle from there. I see that as an opportunity to introduce a bunch of oxygen. I don't know yet which is worse, germs on my fingers or oxygen from the bucket.

i dont bottle alot of my beers but when i want to bottle condition/ or fill from the keg, i use a keg as a bottling bucket and a beer gun as my wand so my o2 pick up is pretty minimal, is there any benefit from bottle conditioning to keg conditioning other then bottles being more portable? i figure if you prime the keg as you would bottles its just one big bottle instead of 25-50, i cant get myself to dump or bottle, so keg is the best option i think. i can always fill up some bottles from the primed keg but i only will use half the amount of priming sugar when keg conditioning so the bottles probably wont carb up enough..idk im just gonna wing it, screw it right? anyway thank you everyone

 

[Kent88]

I don't know much about kegging, so to me these seems like something where you have to consider the value of your keg-space vs bottle-space and how curious you are as to whether this beer will improve with age. If you can keg it and leave it for a few months then great, but if you have other beers in the pipeline and you value your keg-space more than this batch then you have a decision to make.

I assumed that you were preparing to dump it and you didn't want to dedicate a keg nor the full number of bottles to packaging it, so I was offering an alternative.

If you save some (or all) and try some 6 months or a year down the line, I'd be interested in hearing the results, if you remember.