Fermentation Temperature Question

[wcspa]

Hi all,

I am a novice brewer and just started my first brew two days ago. I used a BSG TrueBeer Ingredient Kit for a Vienna Marzen style beer. So far things seem to be going okay but I have a question regarding the optimal temperature and duration of fermentation.

Per the kit's instructions it says to ferment at 65 degrees F for 3-7 days. The kit uses Fermentis Saflager 34/70 yeast and according to Fermintis' website, the optimal fermentation temperature is 53.6-59° F.

So my questions are as follows:

Should I lower the temperature to fit into the ideal range per the yeast manufacturer?

Also, since it is a lager yeast and requires lower temperatures, fermentation should take longer, right? If so how long so I keep it fermenting?

Unrelated to the above, I noticed some colonies growing in the neck of my carboy today. I suspect (and hope) it is just yeast. I have attached a photo for review. Is there any negative consequence of this?

Thanks in advance! I am looking forward to learning more about this whole cool process!

 

[GoeHaarden]

A lot of kit instructions are out of date and/or incorrect. I would say, that yes, it is best to ferment within optimal range for a given yeast. There are exceptions of course, but generally I stay within optimal range. With that being said, there is a 'warm fermented lager' thread that talks about just the thing if you want to check that out more info on fermenting lagers warm.

There is no hard-and-fast times/days for fermentation completion. The best way to know is to check a gravity with a hydrometer. Some yeast can finish in two days, and some can take over a week. Of course, the colder environment will slow down fermentation and yes generally lager yeast at low temps will take longer. All that said, but I usually let my beers go 2-3 weeks to help clean up. Exceptions do apply again...

It's always hard to tell in pictures through a carboy. If looks like yeast, maybe when you poured it in? The fact is doesn't go completely around the neck of your carboy makes me think that it is not krausen. If it appeared after a few days, then you may have an issue. How are your sanitation practices?

 

[WBB]

I would go by the yeast manufacturer guideline. The neck looks...interesting. I’m assuming you followed sanitization protocols? Since it still early, you could get a paper towel dipped in star San and wipe the area. The co2 that is being produced should push out any unwanted o2 from making its way in. Is it the right thing to do? Hell if I know, but it’s what I would do. It could also just be residual yeast from when you pitched.

 

[wcspa]

Okay, yeah, that was my intuition as well. I lowered the temperature target to 59 degrees F this afternoon.

I appreciate the response re: length of fermentation. I am planning on probably letting this one ride out a little longer than the kit instructions for the same reason.

Given that it was my first time, I did my best to adhere to proper sanitation practices. It was with all new equipment which I soaked and cleaned with PBW then with Star San. I fully admit I could have messed something up somewhere along the way. There was a small incident when I was racking the beer after the wort had chilled and before I added the yeast where the tube of the auto siphon had slipped out of the carboy and touched the outside of the carboy which was not sanitized. It did not touch the ground or counter. Otherwise I think I adhered to standard precautions.

I would say that the actual krausen appears to look normal from what pictures I have seen. The only abnormality are those white colonies on the side of the neck of the carboy (that I can appreciate at least). I pitched the yeast dry directly into the carboy so I suppose some of it could have adhered to the neck.

Worst case scenario -- if that is a localized infection to the neck of the carboy but the remainder of wort is not affected, I would just have to take great car when transferring out of the carboy to prevent contamination?

 

[RPh_Guy]

It's just yeast in the carboy neck. Not an issue.

34/70 ferments clean up into the low 70s. Keep it cold if you want, but it'll just take longer.

 

[wcspa]

It's just yeast in the carboy neck. Not an issue.

34/70 ferments clean up into the low 70s. Keep it cold if you want, but it'll just take longer.

Thank you!

 

[seatazzz]

A lot of us over on the WF Lager Thread have used 34/70 to good results. It's all in the name of the yeast; works great over that range of temperature, although depending on your grain/extract bill your results may vary.

A lager is a pretty ambitious beer for your first. Based on your description, you did everything right, but don't be surprised if your end result doesn't taste like your conception of a commercial lager. Yeast, although single-celled animals, tend to have their own agendas and will do what they want. We can control them up to a point, but in the end it's the yeast that makes the beer. Without yeast, no beer. With good practices, attention to sanitation (and your siphon's little slip isn't going to affect it, I'm sure), controlled fermentation temperature, and patience, you will make beer.

The real beauty of this obsessive (to some....okay most of us) hobby is the seemingly limitless room for improvement. Someday soon (or even with this one) you may make what is to you the best beer you've ever had...and then you will want to expand your horizons by either tweaking your recipe or going with something completely different. The possibilities are endless. This forum is chock full of ideas, help, and anecdotes that will sometimes stump you but will for the most part increase your knowledge of brewing. I know it has for me. Welcome to the jungle!!!

 

[wcspa]

A lot of us over on the WF Lager Thread have used 34/70 to good results. It's all in the name of the yeast; works great over that range of temperature, although depending on your grain/extract bill your results may vary.

A lager is a pretty ambitious beer for your first. Based on your description, you did everything right, but don't be surprised if your end result doesn't taste like your conception of a commercial lager. Yeast, although single-celled animals, tend to have their own agendas and will do what they want. We can control them up to a point, but in the end it's the yeast that makes the beer. Without yeast, no beer. With good practices, attention to sanitation (and your siphon's little slip isn't going to affect it, I'm sure), controlled fermentation temperature, and patience, you will make beer.

The real beauty of this obsessive (to some....okay most of us) hobby is the seemingly limitless room for improvement. Someday soon (or even with this one) you may make what is to you the best beer you've ever had...and then you will want to expand your horizons by either tweaking your recipe or going with something completely different. The possibilities are endless. This forum is chock full of ideas, help, and anecdotes that will sometimes stump you but will for the most part increase your knowledge of brewing. I know it has for me. Welcome to the jungle!!!

Thank you for your comments and reassurance.

In retrospect, I agree that attempting a lager as first beer may have been an overly ambitious prospect. Although, to be fair, being inexperienced I was not fully aware I was purchasing a lager kit until I had come home and done further research. The kit listed it as "Easy" in terms of difficulty and the instructions seem to be more consistent with an ale recipe using a lager yeast (no prolonged fermenting at colder temperatures).

Even though this is my first time, I am already very much enjoying the process and learning more and more about it. It blends the elements of art and science together which I find challenging and satisfying. Plus, if all goes well, I get some beer out of it!

I suppose my next question is this: given that I am using a lager yeast which will be fermenting at a lower temperature (and thus taking longer to ferment), do I have to undertake the whole lagering process after fermentation with the diacetyl rest and then dropping the temperature further for a few weeks?

The kit recipe does not prescribe this at all -- basically ferment 7-10 days then rack into bottles and condition. I am open to trying either way or maybe meeting half way and simply fermenting longer or conditioning at a colder level. To possibly influence the decision, I am hoping to start a second brew (a hoppy red ale) next week and I am going to use the same yeast so I can ferment at the same temperature in my chest freezer.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Use the 34/70 at 65F (which is ale temp) and follow the process for ales
It is just as easy as a standard ale.

Colder temp not required.
Diacetyl rest not required.
Lagering not required.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/warm-fermented-lager-thread.592169/

 

[wcspa]

Use the 34/70 at 65F (which is ale temp) and follow the process for ales
It is just as easy as a standard ale.

Colder temp not required.
Diacetyl rest not required.
Lagering not required.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/warm-fermented-lager-thread.592169/

Thank you RPh_Guy! Your insight is much appreciate and I really enjoyed the links!

 

[seatazzz]

What Rph guy said. The whole point of warm fermented lagers (even though technically they are not "lagers" by historical and general consensus, but who cares, it's beer) is to avoid the hassle of 1) having a beer sitting in the fermenter/keg for weeks to mature; and 2) having to maintain a colder temperature in whatever chamber you are fermenting/lagering your tasty creation, when you might want to brew an ale but can't because your fermentation fridge has to stay at 48 for another 2 weeks. Lager yeasts tend to impart a distinct flavor profile to whatever they are given to ferment. I am personally partial to 34/70 and S-23 (mainly because I have two beers right now fermented on each and they are terrific) but others will rave over WLP and Wyeast's lager yeast varieties.

As others have pointed out, DMS is pretty much a non-problem for homebrewers. Diacetyl can be (speaking from experience here) but is easily disposed of with various rectifications (if that's not a word it should be). Keep your fermentation temperature as stable as you can, and you should be fine. Looking forward to hearing about your end results.