Fermentation Starting in 4 hours?

[JoeBart]

Hi all!

I'm new here but have been lurking for a while. I finally got around to dipping my feet into homebrewing and did my first brew today!

I'm going small with a Northernbrewer Irish Red 1 gallon set. Brew day went great as far as I can tell. I made sure to sanitize anything that was going to touch the wort post boil and the whole boil process seemed to go great.

There are a few things that I am concerned about though they may not be a big deal. So I'm hoping everyone here can pitch in and give some advice!

The first is that I underestimated the amount of water that would boil off during the process. My carboy wound up with about 3/4 the amount that probably should have been in there. So I decided to top off with a bit of bottled water once I transferred the wort to the fermentor. I did sanitize the bottle before pouring the water into the fermentor. Is this cause for concern?

Secondly, I've read that fermentation should start in 8-12 hours. My beer has developed a krausen and the airlock is showing activity in about 5 hours. Is this an issue or just the normal variation that can happen from batch to batch.

Thanks in advance for any replies. This forum has been a great help and I'm excited for my first brew (even if it may not be ideal).

 

[PasbitinusBluinusRibbinus]

You did nothing wrong and the beer will be good!

 

[BigFloyd]

It sounds fine. The only common reason to be concerned about fermentation taking off too quickly or too vigorously is if the cause is a too high of a pitch and/or ferment temp. If those were both in the low-mid 60's, you're good to go.

 

[JoeBart]

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

I don't have a thermometer (on my list of things to get for my next brew) but I'm pretty sure the pitching temp was at or below room temp (70F). I gave it a nice ice bath and the pot was cool to the touch.

In any case, the beer is happily fermenting in my garage. Had to install a blowoff valve since it is quite active. I probably should have just done this in the first place.

 

[brewkinger]

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

I don't have a thermometer (on my list of things to get for my next brew) but I'm pretty sure the pitching temp was at or below room temp (70F). I gave it a nice ice bath and the pot was cool to the touch.

In any case, the beer is happily fermenting in my garage. Had to install a blowoff valve since it is quite active. I probably should have just done this in the first place.

So your pitch temperature was good at 70 degrees, but how about the ambient temps where it is fermenting at the moment?
If I remember correctly, that NB Irish Red comes with either Nottingham dry yeast or WYEAST 1056, and both of those yeasts really need the temps down in the mid 60 degree range during fermentation.
Keep in mind that the internal temperature during fermentation can be 5-10 degrees HOTTER than the ambient air temps.
If you have not already done so, look up swamp cooler as a cheap and effective method of controlling temps.

ALSO: A blowoff tube setup is a wise decision with EVERY primary fermentation, especially with certain yeasts.

 

[WileECoyote]

Hello, the easy way to figure out what temp to ferment your beers at is to look up whatever yeast you are using on that beer and go with the lowest recommended temp, on ale yeast most yeast manufactures recommend pitching near 80 deg until active fermentation starts, then slowly cool to the lower temp recommendation.

There are always exceptions, one example is saison yeast 3724, if you ferment it at the lower recommended temp you will most likely have a stuck fermentation.

I would recommend using a swamp cooler to help regulate temps, if your not familiar with a swamp cooler its just a tub with water in it, that you set your fermenter full of wort/beer in to cool it, use frozen bottles of water to cool water in tub if necessary.

Hope this helps !

Welcome to Brewing !

Cheers

 

[BigFloyd]

Hello, the easy way to figure out what temp to ferment your beers at is to look up whatever yeast you are using on that beer and go with the lowest recommended temp, on ale yeast most yeast manufactures recommend pitching near 80 deg until active fermentation starts, then slowly cool to the lower temp recommendation.

+1 on starting the ferment at the low end of the yeast strain's optimal ferment temp range.

I can't say that I've seen where a yeast supplier recommends pitching ales around 80*F and then trying to cool it once active fermentation starts. To me, that's simply asking for trouble in the form of unwanted flavors and possibly fusels. What if it gets active shortly after you go to bed or to work? I have seen it suggested by some to pitch lagers in the upper 60's and then cool them once activity starts, but that's really just a half-a**ed way of trying to make up for a too-low pitch rate.

With either lagers or ales, the best practice IMO is to pitch into wort that's a few degrees cooler than your target starting ferment temp and let it come up to that.

 

[JoeBart]

Just to update everyone I did set up a swamp cooler. I didn't even want to start my beer without going out and buying a tub that would work for the carboy (SWMBO didn't like the idea of me using the tupperware that was a perfect size). Of course, all the thanks goes to this site for the idea. I didn't even know how to set one up until I started perusing the forums here.

Cheers!

 

[WileECoyote]

+1 on starting the ferment at the low end of the yeast strain's optimal ferment temp range.

I can't say that I've seen where a yeast supplier recommends pitching ales around 80*F and then trying to cool it once active fermentation starts. To me, that's simply asking for trouble in the form of unwanted flavors and possibly fusels. What if it gets active shortly after you go to bed or to work? I have seen it suggested by some to pitch lagers in the upper 60's and then cool them once activity starts, but that's really just a half-a**ed way of trying to make up for a too-low pitch rate.

With either lagers or ales, the best practice IMO is to pitch into wort that's a few degrees cooler than your target starting ferment temp and let it come up to that.

Sorry, My bad, the recommended ale yeast pitching temp is 70 to 75 deg for White Labs " Keep at this temperature until fermentation begins" and 65 to 72 deg for Wyeast, "Maintain temperature until fermentation is evident by co2 bubble formation, bubbling airlock or foaming on top of wort". Its on the labels.

I agree that if your going to bed or work then you might be taking a chance leaving it at these temps.

I also don't think there is anything Half-a**ed about doing what two of the biggest yeast manufactures are saying to do, as I beleave they kinda know just a bit more about yeast then most of us on this forum.

IMO Pitching into wort that is cooler than the recommended target fermenting temp can and will most likely will cause a slow start unless you are over pitching your yeast, in-fact the yeast manufactures recommend for "high gravity or low temperature fermentation additional yeast may be required", Im going to have to agree with the yeast manufactures on this.

Cheers

 

[BigFloyd]

I also don't think there is anything Half-a**ed about doing what two of the biggest yeast manufactures are saying to do, as I beleave they kinda know just a bit more about yeast then most of us on this forum.

IMO Pitching into wort that is cooler than the recommended target fermenting temp can and will most likely will cause a slow start unless you are over pitching your yeast, in-fact the yeast manufactures recommend for "high gravity or low temperature fermentation additional yeast may be required", Im going to have to agree with the yeast manufactures on this.

Cheers

You may want to consider that both of the main liquid yeast producers market their vials/smackpacks as "direct pitch" into a 5-gallon batch (which is an underpitch for all but very low gravity ales and a huge underpitch for any lager). I doubt that either one wants to be the first to say that you really ought to make a yeast starter when using their product since many brewers and LHBS counter help (who don't know that the cell counts are roughly the same for Wyeast vs. White) would lean toward the direct pitch/no starter one.

I am by no means alone in my opinion about lager pitch temps. Ask Yooper what she thinks about pitching lager yeast into warmer 65-70*F wort to hasten the start of fermentation activity before cooling to the proper lager ferment temp of around 50*F. It's a poor substitution for using the correct pitch rate and pitching it cool to get a nice, crisp lager ferment.

 

[jbaysurfer]

You may want to consider that both of the main liquid yeast producers market their vials/smackpacks as "direct pitch" into a 5-gallon batch (which is an underpitch for all but very low gravity ales and a huge underpitch for any lager). I doubt that either one wants to be the first to say that you really ought to make a yeast starter when using their product since many brewers and LHBS counter help (who don't know that the cell counts are roughly the same for Wyeast vs. White) would lean toward the direct pitch/no starter one.

I am by no means alone in my opinion about lager pitch temps. Ask Yooper what she thinks about pitching lager yeast into warmer 65-70*F wort to hasten the start of fermentation activity before cooling to the proper lager ferment temp of around 50*F. It's a poor substitution for using the correct pitch rate and pitching it cool to get a nice, crisp lager ferment.

Absolutely agreed. I have never had a good lager that was pitched above 55 degrees. I now pitch my lagers with copious yeast (I have a 5L flash and stir plate), oxygenated and at 45-46F and allow them to free rise to 51. Then I wait.

 

[WileECoyote]

You may want to consider that both of the main liquid yeast producers market their vials/smackpacks as "direct pitch" into a 5-gallon batch (which is an underpitch for all but very low gravity ales and a huge underpitch for any lager). I doubt that either one wants to be the first to say that you really ought to make a yeast starter when using their product since many brewers and LHBS counter help (who don't know that the cell counts are roughly the same for Wyeast vs. White) would lean toward the direct pitch/no starter one.

I am by no means alone in my opinion about lager pitch temps. Ask Yooper what she thinks about pitching lager yeast into warmer 65-70*F wort to hasten the start of fermentation activity before cooling to the proper lager ferment temp of around 50*F. It's a poor substitution for using the correct pitch rate and pitching it cool to get a nice, crisp lager ferment.

Lol I wasn't talking about lagers what so ever and I think you know that !

I also agree that yeast manufactures don't really want us making starters.

but the OP is new and most likely direct pitching, so i was trying to help him with what he was asking.

I also did state in my reply that the yeast manufactures even recommend to pitch more yeast on bigger beers.

Cheers

 

[knockout350]

while there is nothing wrong with your brew i will caution you that you might get a few headaches in the drinking process. as i discovered with my oatmeal stout, if you pitch without it getting nice and cool your yeast is incredibly active and will ferment up a storm but in doing so it produces heavy alcohols at the higher temps. these heavy alcohols will not effect flavor much but will give you a splitting headache if you drink a bunch of them but seeing as its a one gallon batch i think you will be just fine.

 

[BigFloyd]

Lol I wasn't talking about lagers what so ever and I think you know that !

Hold on. Now I'm a bit confused about what you were talking about since my somewhat snarky "half-a**ed" remark (below) was specifically referring to the practice of pitching lagers warm then cooling them.

I have seen it suggested by some to pitch lagers in the upper 60's and then cool them once activity starts, but that's really just a half-a**ed way of trying to make up for a too-low pitch rate.

 

[WileECoyote]

Hold on. Now I'm a bit confused about what you were talking about since my somewhat snarky "half-a**ed" remark (below) was specifically referring to the practice of pitching lagers warm then cooling them.

Maybe you should go back and read your reply in post #7 about ale yeast pitching temps, replying to my post about ale yeast pitching temps, I have been talking about ale yeast temps the entire time.

If you want talk about Lager pitching temps you'll have to chat with others about that, as I use ale yeast all-most all of the time.

Sounds like a miscommunication to me !

Cheers

 

[JoeBart]

Hey everyone, I thought I would post an update on this beer (the Irish Red Ale 1 gal extract kit from Northern Brewer for those who skipped to this point). It's been in bottles for 2 weeks now. I planned on opening one at 1 week and another at 2 simply to see how it was progressing. I knew full well the beer wouldn't be carbed properly at 1 week or maybe even 2 weeks, but I wanted to get an idea of how carbonation progresses as well as how a beer can change with time.

The beer I tried at week one was (shocker) not fully carbed and had virtually no head. Thus it was rather flat but the flavor profile was there. I do have some off flavors that I have difficulty describing. I think it's too sweet and rather yeasty, which in my best guess might be a result of overpitching, though maybe some of you could provide some insight on this number. It was likely fermented too hot and again I pitched at too high a temp. There might be some banana type flavors in the beer but I'm new to this so I could be off base here. Overall at this point, it isn't something I would want to have a friend taste, but it really isn't bad.

The tasting at week two was almost night and day. I still don't think it's fully carbed, but some of the yeasty sweetness has subsided and the beer seems to be rounding out. The maltiness of a red ale is starting to come through, which I'm pretty excited about. It is also much clearer, though still darker in color as is common to extracts from what I've read. I would still be hesitant to have a friend try it as off flavors of what I believe to be banana are still present, but it is completely drinkable at this point.

I'm very excited to see what week three will bring and in the mean time I have brewed a saison that I think will be worlds better and today I brewed up a 2.5 gallon batch of the simple hefe recipe posted here on the forums. I'm really grateful the homebrewtalk forum exists as it has helped me tremendously in understanding more about beer and home brewing. It is truly a wonderful resource and everyone here is extremely helpful.

Cheers all!

 

[WileECoyote]

Just remember to save some of those beers for 2 months in the bottles, it will blow you away how much better it will become with some age on it.

IMO the more bottles you taste now, the less bottles you will have when it becomes good, I know you want to see how it progresses and that is really good to know, I wouldn't try any bottles early from your next batch, it will change too, just give it time and drink all of it when its good.

Cheers